No more "Christian name, sir?" in Kent, UK

[Judy Prince]

Thanks for this, Victor.  I'm half Hungarian, but had forgotten about the
reversals!  I'll try to remember a Hungarian phrase before closing this
message.

A quick story illustrating perhaps what you've found in the Chinese students
insisting on English given names.  Students I taught English and speech at a
university in Taipei, Taiwan, always had to give themselves (or be given)
English first names which, in those classes, we all called them.  The names
would often be similar-sounding to a part of their Chinese "first" (not
"family") names, or they'd evoke a quality that the student especially
valued.  One of my female students came to my desk  and said she wanted to
change her name because she'd found one that she truly loved:  Beggy.  I
tried to make myself look very serious, and suggested a very close-sounding
name:  Becky.  She thought about it, pronounced it aloud a few times, and
said:  "Thank you, Miss Prince.....but I prefer Beggy."  Beggy it was for
the rest of the semester!

Egesz Segedre, Victor!   If you know Hungarian feel free to correct and/or
translate, please.

Judy (Balizs) Prince

On 27 March 2010 21:02, Victor Steinbok <aardvark66 at gmail.com> wrote:

> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> -----------------------
> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Poster:       Victor Steinbok <aardvark66 at GMAIL.COM>
> Subject:      Re: No more "Christian name, sir?" in Kent, UK
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> East Asians notwithstanding, Hungarians also write their given/family
> names in reverse of Anglophone notation, unless prompted to do otherwise
> (and sometimes even then ;-)--e.g., you will see Nepes Gyorgy and Kiraly
> Janos instead of what we would write as Gyorgy Nepes and Janos Kiraly
> (or, to make things even more complicated, George Nepes and John
> Kiraly). It is quite common to find this happening on various lists and
> databases and causes endless confusion. I am used to Hungarians doing
> that, but it still gets weird when an ethnic Czech or Romanian name
> appears on a Hungarian list in the formal Hungarian order.
>
> And Hungarians are not alone--in many Slavic cultures the names are
> reversed in formal situations even if they would not be under ordinary
> circumstances. The issue is not Chinese and Hungarians understanding the
> distinction we give to the two sets of names--it is /us/ understanding
> them. And, far too often, ignorance prevails. Now, there is further
> confusion with Chinese--not because of understanding, but because of
> recently developed cultural quirks. A number of Chinese students told me
> that even among the young Chinese who have never been outside the
> country there is a trend to create Western names that correspond to
> their given names, i.e., Chan Weilin will pass herself as Eileen, etc.
> This could actually get interesting because when someone asks for
> "Christian name" such a person is likely to give the "European" sounding
> name rather than the original given name. One student refused to get
> into the details of his legal name and demanded that everyone call him
> Fred, which cause endless problems because no official records existed
> that identified him as Fred.
>
>     VS-)
>
> On 3/27/2010 7:50 PM, Judy Prince wrote:
> > Indeed, Joel.
> >
> > I'm familiar with some spoken (Beijing-hwa) and written Chinese.
>  Typically,
> > I've found that the Chinese know well that our "first name, last name" is
> > the reverse of their "family name, 'given name'".  Hence, they are not
> > confused about our names, but we are Very Confused with theirs since not
> > only do few USAmericans know the Chinese tradition of placing the family
> > name first, but few of us speak Chinese, (though many Chinese speak
> > English), so we gather no clues from the names as to their "family-ness"
> or
> > "given name-ness".  Often, a Chinese will introduce herself here using
> our
> > tradition.
> >
> > As some people would say:  "Another example of American exceptionalism."
> >
> > Best,
> >
> > Judy
> >
> >
> >
> > On 27 March 2010 19:39, Joel S. Berson<Berson at att.net>  wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >> At 3/27/2010 07:59 AM, Judy Prince wrote:
> >>
> >>> "First name" works nicely.
> >>>
> >> But, like "forename", not for the traditional Chinese and several
> >> other cultures (when they're giving their name in answer to being
> >> questioned in English).
> >>
> >> Joel
>
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