"Inside of a dog"

Sat May 1 00:49:22 UTC 2010

Many thanks to Jonathan Lighter for checking the 1974 citation. Some
Groucho Marx quotes may be difficult to verify definitively without
databases of transcripts for radio and television shows.

While searching I came across a metaphorical expression about the
inside of a dog that was new to me: "as black as the inside of a dog."
Why this particular mammal was selected to illustrate the difficulty
of photons reaching the interior of an object I do not know. By 1907
the expression was already ornate:

Citation: 1907 July 31, Punch, Our Booking Office, Page 90, Punch
Publications Ltd.

… dark as the inside of a black dog shut up in a coal cellar …

http://books.google.com/books?id=MgkIAQAAIAAJ&q=%22dog+shut%22#v=snippet&

No wonder it was difficult to read in there.

Garson

On Fri, Apr 30, 2010 at 8:06 AM, Jonathan Lighter
<wuxxmupp2000 at gmail.com> wrote:
> ---------------------- Information from the mail header -----------------------
> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Poster:       Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM>
> Subject:      Re: "Inside of a dog"
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Garson, the article is as you describe it. Smith describes the show:
>
> "Like words, the show was full of surprises. The walls talked. Everywhere
> there were words, black and white on the walls, some of them stuck up just
> for the sheer fascinating imagery of them."
>
> He found the "dog" quip, attributed to Groucho Marx, right up there with
> "Tiger, Tiger burning bright,/ In the forests of the night,"  "Western
> Wind," "Remember the a la mode!" (from a Texas menu), the etymology of
> _daisy_, elephant jokes and, as they say, so much more.
>
>
> JL
> On Fri, Apr 30, 2010 at 2:48 AM, Garson O'Toole
> <adsgarsonotoole at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>> -----------------------
>> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>> Poster:       Garson O'Toole <adsgarsonotoole at GMAIL.COM>
>> Subject:      Re: "Inside of a dog"
>>
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> It looks like the Los Angeles Times dated 1974 January 28 has a review
>> by Jack Smith titled "A Fascinating Play on Words". The review seems
>> to be for the "Word Show" production mentioned in "The Art Museum as
>> Educator" book. The review contains the dog joke and attributes it to
>> Groucho. I cannot check this cite in a full-database or on microfilm
>> right now that is why I am using the lame phrase "looks like". The
>> excerpt below is from a Google News archive search and the LA Times
>> synopsis:
>>
>> I drove up to Barnsdall Park the other afternoon for a look at what
>> the Junior Arts Center calls its Word Show--An Experience in the
>> Possibilities of Language. ...
>> ... Outside of a dog a book is man's best friend because inside of a
>> dog it's too dark to read. Groucho.
>>
>> http://news.google.com/archivesearch?q=%22cause+inside+of+a+dog%
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Apr 30, 2010 at 2:10 AM, Garson O'Toole
>> <adsgarsonotoole at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>> -----------------------
>> > Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>> > Poster:       Garson O'Toole <adsgarsonotoole at GMAIL.COM>
>> > Subject:      Re: "Inside of a dog"
>> >
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >
>> > YBQ has a version attributed to Groucho Marx in the Washington Post in
>> > 1989 and a slightly earlier attribution to Groucho in a Usenet posing
>> > dated 1987 September 15.
>> >
>> > A quick search in Google Books finds a match to a book with a 1978
>> > copyright that attributes the joke to Groucho Marx. The wording is
>> > slightly different and the book says the joke was used in a show in
>> > 1974:
>> >
>> > Citation: 1978, The Art Museum as Educator edited by Barbara Y.
>> > Newsom, Adele Z. Silver, Page 369, University of California Press.
>> > (Google Books limited view)
>> >
>> > "The Word Show," January through March 1974, was a cooperative venture
>> > of the staff artists and the gallery's curator. The result was a wild
>> > and educational exhibit based on the origin, form, peversity, and
>> > delight of words. It was full of verbal and visual puns, jokes,
>> > riddles, and images. For example, from Groucho Marx,
>> >   Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend because
>> >   inside of a dog is too dark to read.
>> >
>> > http://books.google.com/books?id=xbG_W0mevmIC&q=Groucho#v=snippet&
>> >
>> > Groucho died in 1977. I will look some more for a better citation when
>> > I have some time, or another list member may do so.
>> >
>> > Garson
>> >
>> >
>> > On Fri, Apr 30, 2010 at 12:04 AM, Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at yale.edu>
>> wrote:
>> >> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>> -----------------------
>> >> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>> >> Poster:       Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at YALE.EDU>
>> >> Subject:      "Inside of a dog"
>> >>
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >>
>> >> I've always been fond of the apothegm in question--
>> >>
>> >> "Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's
>> >> too dark to read."
>> >>
>> >> that I assumed was indeed uttered/written by Groucho Marx.  There was
>> >> always that question of whether "inside of a dog" is really truly
>> >> possible, but on balance, it's still an immortal line.  Only maybe
>> >> it's not Groucho's after all?
>> >>
>> >> I'm at the Seattle airport at the moment, where there doesn't seem to
>> >> be a copy of Fred's YBOQ on hand, but what struck me is that a recent
>> >> addition to the "Cognitive Science looks at canines" bookshelf,
>> >> _Inside of a Dog: What Dogs See, Smell, and Know_ (by Alexandra
>> >> Horowitz, Scribner, 2009) indicates that the eponymous epigraph is
>> >> "attributed to Groucho Marx", which leads my Gricean antennae to
>> >> infer a lack of success on Horowitz's part in pinning down an actual
>> >> source. (Not that any of the amazon reviewers shy away from crediting
>> >> Groucho for it.)
>> >>
>> >> Are there any definitive takes on this one?
>> >>
>> >> LH
>> >>
>> >> ------------------------------------------------------------
>> >> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>> >>
>> >
>> > ------------------------------------------------------------
>> > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>> >
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>>
>
>
>
> --
> "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the truth."
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>

------------------------------------------------------------
The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org