"Inside of a dog"

Sat May 1 01:20:37 UTC 2010

> While searching I came across a metaphorical expression about the
> inside of a dog that was new to me: "as black as the inside of a dog."

I use the expression "dark as the inside of a cow", which, I'm quite sure, I picked up from Mark Twain, though I can't say what book.

GAT

George A. Thompson
Author of A Documentary History of "The African Theatre", Northwestern Univ. Pr., 1998, but nothing much lately.

----- Original Message -----
From: Garson O'Toole <adsgarsonotoole at GMAIL.COM>
Date: Friday, April 30, 2010 8:50 pm
Subject: Re: "Inside of a dog"
To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU

> Many thanks to Jonathan Lighter for checking the 1974 citation. Some
> Groucho Marx quotes may be difficult to verify definitively without
> databases of transcripts for radio and television shows.
>
> While searching I came across a metaphorical expression about the
> inside of a dog that was new to me: "as black as the inside of a dog."
> Why this particular mammal was selected to illustrate the difficulty
> of photons reaching the interior of an object I do not know. By 1907
> the expression was already ornate:
>
> Citation: 1907 July 31, Punch, Our Booking Office, Page 90, Punch
> Publications Ltd.
>
> … dark as the inside of a black dog shut up in a coal cellar …
>
> http://books.google.com/books?id=MgkIAQAAIAAJ&q=%22dog+shut%22#v=snippet&
>
> No wonder it was difficult to read in there.
>
> Garson
>
>
> On Fri, Apr 30, 2010 at 8:06 AM, Jonathan Lighter
> <wuxxmupp2000 at gmail.com> wrote:
> > ---------------------- Information from the mail header -----------------------
> > Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> > Poster:       Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM>
> > Subject:      Re: "Inside of a dog"
> > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Garson, the article is as you describe it. Smith describes the show:
> >
> > "Like words, the show was full of surprises. The walls talked. Everywhere
> > there were words, black and white on the walls, some of them stuck
> up just
> > for the sheer fascinating imagery of them."
> >
> > He found the "dog" quip, attributed to Groucho Marx, right up there
> with
> > "Tiger, Tiger burning bright,/ In the forests of the night,"  "Western
> > Wind," "Remember the a la mode!" (from a Texas menu), the etymology
> of
> > _daisy_, elephant jokes and, as they say, so much more.
> >
> >
> > JL
> > On Fri, Apr 30, 2010 at 2:48 AM, Garson O'Toole
> > <adsgarsonotoole at gmail.com>wrote:
> >
> >> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> >> -----------------------
> >> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> >> Poster:       Garson O'Toole <adsgarsonotoole at GMAIL.COM>
> >> Subject:      Re: "Inside of a dog"
> >>
> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>
> >> It looks like the Los Angeles Times dated 1974 January 28 has a review
> >> by Jack Smith titled "A Fascinating Play on Words". The review seems
> >> to be for the "Word Show" production mentioned in "The Art Museum as
> >> Educator" book. The review contains the dog joke and attributes it
> to
> >> Groucho. I cannot check this cite in a full-database or on microfilm
> >> right now that is why I am using the lame phrase "looks like". The
> >> excerpt below is from a Google News archive search and the LA Times
> >> synopsis:
> >>
> >> I drove up to Barnsdall Park the other afternoon for a look at what
> >> the Junior Arts Center calls its Word Show--An Experience in the
> >> Possibilities of Language. ...
> >> ... Outside of a dog a book is man's best friend because inside of
> a
> >> dog it's too dark to read. Groucho.
> >>
> >> http://news.google.com/archivesearch?q=%22cause+inside+of+a+dog%
> >>
> >>
> >> On Fri, Apr 30, 2010 at 2:10 AM, Garson O'Toole
> >> <adsgarsonotoole at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> > ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> >> -----------------------
> >> > Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> >> > Poster:       Garson O'Toole <adsgarsonotoole at GMAIL.COM>
> >> > Subject:      Re: "Inside of a dog"
> >> >
> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> >
> >> > YBQ has a version attributed to Groucho Marx in the Washington
> Post in
> >> > 1989 and a slightly earlier attribution to Groucho in a Usenet posing
> >> > dated 1987 September 15.
> >> >
> >> > A quick search in Google Books finds a match to a book with a 1978
> >> > copyright that attributes the joke to Groucho Marx. The wording is
> >> > slightly different and the book says the joke was used in a show
> in
> >> > 1974:
> >> >
> >> > Citation: 1978, The Art Museum as Educator edited by Barbara Y.
> >> > Newsom, Adele Z. Silver, Page 369, University of California Press.
> >> > (Google Books limited view)
> >> >
> >> > "The Word Show," January through March 1974, was a cooperative venture
> >> > of the staff artists and the gallery's curator. The result was a
> wild
> >> > and educational exhibit based on the origin, form, peversity, and
> >> > delight of words. It was full of verbal and visual puns, jokes,
> >> > riddles, and images. For example, from Groucho Marx,
> >> >   Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend because
> >> >   inside of a dog is too dark to read.
> >> >
> >> > http://books.google.com/books?id=xbG_W0mevmIC&q=Groucho#v=snippet&
> >> >
> >> > Groucho died in 1977. I will look some more for a better citation
> when
> >> > I have some time, or another list member may do so.
> >> >
> >> > Garson
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > On Fri, Apr 30, 2010 at 12:04 AM, Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at yale.edu>
> >> wrote:
> >> >> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> >> -----------------------
> >> >> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> >> >> Poster:       Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at YALE.EDU>
> >> >> Subject:      "Inside of a dog"
> >> >>
> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> >>
> >> >> I've always been fond of the apothegm in question--
> >> >>
> >> >> "Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog,
> it's
> >> >> too dark to read."
> >> >>
> >> >> that I assumed was indeed uttered/written by Groucho Marx.
> There was
> >> >> always that question of whether "inside of a dog" is really truly
> >> >> possible, but on balance, it's still an immortal line.  Only maybe
> >> >> it's not Groucho's after all?
> >> >>
> >> >> I'm at the Seattle airport at the moment, where there doesn't
> seem to
> >> >> be a copy of Fred's YBOQ on hand, but what struck me is that a recent
> >> >> addition to the "Cognitive Science looks at canines" bookshelf,
> >> >> _Inside of a Dog: What Dogs See, Smell, and Know_ (by Alexandra
> >> >> Horowitz, Scribner, 2009) indicates that the eponymous epigraph
> is
> >> >> "attributed to Groucho Marx", which leads my Gricean antennae to
> >> >> infer a lack of success on Horowitz's part in pinning down an actual
> >> >> source. (Not that any of the amazon reviewers shy away from crediting
> >> >> Groucho for it.)
> >> >>
> >> >> Are there any definitive takes on this one?
> >> >>
> >> >> LH
> >> >>
> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------
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> >> >>
> >> >
> >> > ------------------------------------------------------------
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> >> >
> >>
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> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the
> truth."
> >
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> >
>
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