Rat-tail(ed) [comb and] broom

Wilson Gray hwgray at GMAIL.COM
Sat May 8 17:00:50 UTC 2010 

What I heard was [Ign at nt stIk], which, at the time, my internal
grammar told me was "ignorant stick." But, if you stop to think about
it, it may very well have been the case that my "informant" had said
"ignorance stick." It would have sounded the same, for all practical
purposes. I did stop to think about it, but a couple of three dekkids
too late to double-check.

IAC, my personal opinion, FWIW, is that I really did hear _ignorant_
and not _ignorance_. Also, considering that it was ca.1954 when I
heard the phrase, HDAS is dead on the case, being able to document it
in BE from '57. The only other time that the pushbroom has come up,
IME, the speaker merely mimed the special way in which the handle is
held, instead of referring to the broom or to the act of using it by
some slang term.

-Wilson

On Thu, May 6, 2010 at 10:03 AM, Jonathan Lighter
<wuxxmupp2000 at gmail.com> wrote:
> ---------------------- Information from the mail header -----------------------
> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Poster:       Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM>
> Subject:      Re: Rat-tail(ed) [comb and] broom
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> HDAS has _ignorant stick_ (in the related sense of "a shovel or a hoe") onl=
> y
> back to 1957. Not surprising for non-jazz BE slang, which is poorly
> represented in print before the '70s. "Ignorance stick" is a variant.
>
> The similar _idiot stick_ (again, a shovel or similar implement) is recorde=
> d
> from 1930 in WE.
>
> GB reveals a recording by Red Allen, "Get the Mop (The Ignorant Stick)" fro=
> m
> late 1945 or very early '46.
>
> JL
>
>
> On Thu, May 6, 2010 at 1:20 AM, Wilson Gray <hwgray at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>> -----------------------
>> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>> Poster:       Wilson Gray <hwgray at GMAIL.COM>
>> Subject:      Re: Rat-tail(ed) [comb and] broom
>>
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------=
> ------
>>
>> That's the right comb. It's the full-sized pushbroom that's the
>> ignorant stick. It's the handier ooblect that sppears to have been
>> inspired by the pushbroom that's called a rat-tailed broom. I have to
>> remember to ask my wife the name of a peculiak kind of brush that she
>> has, but has never used. WAG: it's something used to brush crumbs off
>> a tablecloth. I was going to use it to brush spilled kitty crackers
>> off the kitchen floor till she broke nasty on me.
>>
>> -Wilson
>>
>> On Wed, May 5, 2010 at 10:51 AM, Joel S. Berson <Berson at att.net> wrote:
>> > ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>> -----------------------
>> > Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>> > Poster:       "Joel S. Berson" <Berson at ATT.NET>
>> > Subject:      Re: Rat-tail(ed) [comb and] broom
>> >
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------=
> ------
>> >
>> > At 5/4/2010 09:36 PM, Wilson Gray wrote:
>> >>My mother also used a type of comb that she called a "rat-tailed"
>> >>comb. She was also an East-Texan: born in Longview, reared in
>> >>Marshall.
>> >
>> > Did the comb look like and was it used like the
>> > one in the video one can see on the web?  (Google "rat-tail comb".)
>> >
>> > I associate "rat-tail comb" with one having a
>> > long handle (as contrasted with one having
>> > bristles up to each end), but not being much into
>> > feminine hair styling I was not familiar with the
>> > ratty tail (narrow diameter, too narrow for a
>> > facile handle) and the use videoed.
>> >
>> > I have something similar to Wilson's description
>> > of his "ignorance stick", only it is of course
>> > not pushed, that has soft "bristles" and is
>> > useful for cleaning up fine particles.  I too,
>> > like his wife, call it a "dust broom" (NY City),
>> > not a "rat-tail broom".  There's a picture of
>> > something similar to mine at
>> >
>> http://www.bobbyberkhome.com/show_product/25413/?utm_source=3Dfroogle&utm=
> _medium=3Ddatafeed&utm_term=3D25413
>> >
>> > Joel
>> >
>> >
>> >>-Wilson
>> >>
>> >>On Tue, May 4, 2010 at 8:43 PM, Darla Wells <lethe9 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> > ---------------------- Information from the
>> >> mail header -----------------------
>> >> > Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>> >> > Poster:       Darla Wells <lethe9 at GMAIL.COM>
>> >> > Subject:      Re: Rat-tail(ed) broom
>> >> >
>> >>
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------=
> ------
>> >> >
>> >> > never heard that one, but we use _rat-tailed comb_ a whole lot
>> >> > Darla
>> >> >
>> >> > 2010/5/4 Wilson Gray <hwgray at gmail.com>
>> >> >
>> >> >> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>> >> >> -----------------------
>> >> >> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>> >> >> Poster:       Wilson Gray <hwgray at GMAIL.COM>
>> >> >> Subject:      Rat-tail(ed) broom
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------=
> =3D
>> >> > ------
>> >> >>
>> >> >> This is probably more a DARE thing than an HDAS type of thing.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> There are only three hits that Google considers to be relevant.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> IAC, in Saint Louis, _rat-tailed broom_, like "whisk broom," is the
>> >> >> only name used for this handy object. Unfortunately, it's not likel=
> y
>> >> >> to come up as the subject of a random conversation. So, I have no
>> idea
>> >> >> whether this handy form of broom is known / used elsewhere, perhaps
>> >> >> under a different name.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Because it comes in so handy (we have cats), I *keeps* me a
>> rat-tailed
>> >> >> broom. I've asked my wife about her familiarity with this tool and
>> she
>> >> >> *thinks* that it *may* be called a "dust broom" in in NE PA.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> IAC, it looks roughly like an "ignorant stick" / "ignorance stick" =
> -
>> >> >> pushbroom - with the handle removed and a third or so of the bristl=
> es
>> >> >> removed from the head, with the empty space carved, so to speak, in=
> to
>> >> >> a handle.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> BTW, I once read somewhere - Mario Pei, yet again? - that "ignorant
>> >> >> stick" originally referred to the spade as a tool of ditch-diggers.
>> >> >> But, IME, it was:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> "... pushing the ignorant stick ..."
>> >> >>
>> >> >> "What's that?"
>> >> >>
>> >> >> "Doing porter-work."
>> >> >>
>> >> >> -Wilson
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> -Wilson
>> >> >> =3D96=3D96=3D96
>> >> >> All say, "How hard it is that we have to die!"=3D96=3D96a strange
>> complaint t=3D
>> >> > o
>> >> >> come from the mouths of people who have had to live.
>> >> >> =3D96Mark Twain
>> >> >>
>> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------
>> >> >> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>> >> >>
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > --=3D20
>> >> > If you can't be a good example, then you'll just have to be a horrib=
> le
>> >> > warning. -Catherine Aird
>> >> >
>> >> > ------------------------------------------------------------
>> >> > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>--
>> >>-Wilson
>> >>=AD=AD=AD
>> >>All say, "How hard it is that we have to die!"=AD=ADa strange complaint=
>  to
>> >>come from the mouths of people who have had to live.
>> >>=ADMark Twain
>> >>
>> >>------------------------------------------------------------
>> >>The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>> >
>> > ------------------------------------------------------------
>> > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> -Wilson
>> =96=96=96
>> All say, "How hard it is that we have to die!"=96=96a strange complaint t=
> o
>> come from the mouths of people who have had to live.
>> =96Mark Twain
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>>
>
>
>
> --=20
> "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the truth."
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>



--
-Wilson
–––
All say, "How hard it is that we have to die!"––a strange complaint to
come from the mouths of people who have had to live.
–Mark Twain

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The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org

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