Rat-tail(ed) [comb and] broom

Sat May 8 18:08:57 UTC 2010

Nobody in this thread  (IIRC) has mentioned being reminded, as I
have, of the "tools of ignorance", i.e. the catcher's gear in
baseball, which as I understood was so called because only the really
dumb kids would be willing to catch.  I see on one site that the
expression is attributed to Muddy Ruel, Walter Johnson's catcher with
the Senators in the 1920s; Ruel was also a lawyer, so I assume he was
speaking with some irony if he really was the innovator of the
dysphemism.

LH

At 1:05 PM -0400 5/8/10, Wilson Gray wrote:
>What I heard was [Ign at nt stIk], which, at the time, my internal
>grammar told me was "ignorant stick." But, if you stop to think about
>it, it may very well have been the case that my "informant" had said
>"ignorance stick." It would have sounded the same, for all practical
>purposes. I did stop to think about it, but a couple of three dekkids
>too late to double-check.
>
>IAC, my personal opinion, FWIW, is that I really did hear _ignorant_
>and not _ignorance_. Also, considering that it was ca.1954 when I
>heard the phrase, HDAS is dead on the case, being able to document it
>in BE from '57. The only other time that the pushbroom has come up,
>IME, the speaker merely mimed the special way in which the handle is
>held, instead of referring to the broom or to the act of using it by
>some slang term.
>
>-Wilson
>
>On Thu, May 6, 2010 at 10:03 AM, Jonathan Lighter
><wuxxmupp2000 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>  ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>>-----------------------
>>  Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>>  Poster:       Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM>
>>  Subject:      Re: Rat-tail(ed) [comb and] broom
>>
>>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>  HDAS has _ignorant stick_ (in the related sense of "a shovel or a hoe") onl=
>>  y
>>  back to 1957. Not surprising for non-jazz BE slang, which is poorly
>>  represented in print before the '70s. "Ignorance stick" is a variant.
>>
>>  The similar _idiot stick_ (again, a shovel or similar implement) is recorde=
>>  d
>>  from 1930 in WE.
>>
>>  GB reveals a recording by Red Allen, "Get the Mop (The Ignorant Stick)" fro=
>>  m
>>  late 1945 or very early '46.
>>
>>  JL
>>
>>
>>  On Thu, May 6, 2010 at 1:20 AM, Wilson Gray <hwgray at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>  ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>>>  -----------------------
>>>  Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>>>  Poster:       Wilson Gray <hwgray at GMAIL.COM>
>>>  Subject:      Re: Rat-tail(ed) [comb and] broom
>>>
>>>  -------------------------------------------------------------------------=
>>  ------
>>>
>>>  That's the right comb. It's the full-sized pushbroom that's the
>>>  ignorant stick. It's the handier ooblect that sppears to have been
>>>  inspired by the pushbroom that's called a rat-tailed broom. I have to
>>>  remember to ask my wife the name of a peculiak kind of brush that she
>>>  has, but has never used. WAG: it's something used to brush crumbs off
>>>  a tablecloth. I was going to use it to brush spilled kitty crackers
>>>  off the kitchen floor till she broke nasty on me.
>>>
>>>  -Wilson
>>>
>>>  On Wed, May 5, 2010 at 10:51 AM, Joel S. Berson <Berson at att.net> wrote:
>>>  > ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>>>  -----------------------
>>>  > Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>>>  > Poster:       "Joel S. Berson" <Berson at ATT.NET>
>>>  > Subject:      Re: Rat-tail(ed) [comb and] broom
>>>  >
>>>  -------------------------------------------------------------------------=
>>  ------
>>>  >
>>>  > At 5/4/2010 09:36 PM, Wilson Gray wrote:
>  >> >>My mother also used a type of comb that she called a "rat-tailed"
>>>  >>comb. She was also an East-Texan: born in Longview, reared in
>>>  >>Marshall.
>>>  >
>>>  > Did the comb look like and was it used like the
>>>  > one in the video one can see on the web?  (Google "rat-tail comb".)
>>>  >
>>>  > I associate "rat-tail comb" with one having a
>  >> > long handle (as contrasted with one having
>>>  > bristles up to each end), but not being much into
>>>  > feminine hair styling I was not familiar with the
>>>  > ratty tail (narrow diameter, too narrow for a
>>>  > facile handle) and the use videoed.
>>>  >
>>>  > I have something similar to Wilson's description
>>>  > of his "ignorance stick", only it is of course
>>>  > not pushed, that has soft "bristles" and is
>>>  > useful for cleaning up fine particles.  I too,
>>>  > like his wife, call it a "dust broom" (NY City),
>>>  > not a "rat-tail broom".  There's a picture of
>>>  > something similar to mine at
>>>  >
>>>  http://www.bobbyberkhome.com/show_product/25413/?utm_source=3Dfroogle&utm=
>>  _medium=3Ddatafeed&utm_term=3D25413
>>>  >
>>>  > Joel
>>>  >
>>>  >
>>>  >>-Wilson
>>>  >>
>>>  >>On Tue, May 4, 2010 at 8:43 PM, Darla Wells <lethe9 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>  >> > ---------------------- Information from the
>>>  >> mail header -----------------------
>>>  >> > Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>>>  >> > Poster:       Darla Wells <lethe9 at GMAIL.COM>
>>>  >> > Subject:      Re: Rat-tail(ed) broom
>>>  >> >
>>>  >>
>>>  -------------------------------------------------------------------------=
>>  ------
>>>  >> >
>>>  >> > never heard that one, but we use _rat-tailed comb_ a whole lot
>>>  >> > Darla
>>>  >> >
>>>  >> > 2010/5/4 Wilson Gray <hwgray at gmail.com>
>>>  >> >
>>>  >> >> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>>>  >> >> -----------------------
>>>  >> >> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>>>  >> >> Poster:       Wilson Gray <hwgray at GMAIL.COM>
>>>  >> >> Subject:      Rat-tail(ed) broom
>>>  >> >>
>>>  >> >>
>>>  -------------------------------------------------------------------------=
>>  =3D
>>>  >> > ------
>>>  >> >>
>>>  >> >> This is probably more a DARE thing than an HDAS type of thing.
>>>  >> >>
>>>  >> >> There are only three hits that Google considers to be relevant.
>>>  >> >>
>>>  >> >> IAC, in Saint Louis, _rat-tailed broom_, like "whisk broom," is the
>>>  >> >> only name used for this handy object. Unfortunately, it's not likel=
>>  y
>>>  >> >> to come up as the subject of a random conversation. So, I have no
>>>  idea
>>>  >> >> whether this handy form of broom is known / used elsewhere, perhaps
>>>  >> >> under a different name.
>>>  >> >>
>>>  >> >> Because it comes in so handy (we have cats), I *keeps* me a
>>>  rat-tailed
>>>  >> >> broom. I've asked my wife about her familiarity with this tool and
>>>  she
>>>  >> >> *thinks* that it *may* be called a "dust broom" in in NE PA.
>>>  >> >>
>>>  >> >> IAC, it looks roughly like an "ignorant stick" / "ignorance stick" =
>>  -
>>>  >> >> pushbroom - with the handle removed and a third or so of the bristl=
>>  es
>>>  >> >> removed from the head, with the empty space carved, so to speak, in=
>>  to
>>>  >> >> a handle.
>>>  >> >>
>>>  >> >> BTW, I once read somewhere - Mario Pei, yet again? - that "ignorant
>>>  >> >> stick" originally referred to the spade as a tool of ditch-diggers.
>>>  >> >> But, IME, it was:
>>>  >> >>
>>>  >> >> "... pushing the ignorant stick ..."
>>>  >> >>
>>>  >> >> "What's that?"
>>>  >> >>
>>>  >> >> "Doing porter-work."
>>>  >> >>
>>>  >> >> -Wilson
>>>  >> >>
>>>  >> >>
>>>  >> >>
>>>  >> >> -Wilson
>>>  >> >> =3D96=3D96=3D96
>>>  >> >> All say, "How hard it is that we have to die!"=3D96=3D96a strange
>>>  complaint t=3D
>>>  >> > o
>>>  >> >> come from the mouths of people who have had to live.
>>>  >> >> =3D96Mark Twain
>>>  >> >>
>>>  >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>>  >> >> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>>>  >> >>
>>>  >> >
>>>  >> >
>>>  >> >
>>>  >> > --=3D20
>>>  >> > If you can't be a good example, then you'll just have to be a horrib=
>>  le
>>>  >> > warning. -Catherine Aird
>>>  >> >
>>>  >> > ------------------------------------------------------------
>  >> >> > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>>>  >> >
>>>  >>
>>>  >>
>>>  >>
>>>  >>--
>>>  >>-Wilson
>>>  >>=AD=AD=AD
>>>  >>All say, "How hard it is that we have to die!"=AD=ADa strange complaint=
>>   to
>>>  >>come from the mouths of people who have had to live.
>>>  >>=ADMark Twain
>>>  >>
>>>  >>------------------------------------------------------------
>  >> >>The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>>>  >
>>>  > ------------------------------------------------------------
>>>  > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>>>  >
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  --
>>>  -Wilson
>>>  =96=96=96
>>>  All say, "How hard it is that we have to die!"=96=96a strange complaint t=
>>  o
>>>  come from the mouths of people who have had to live.
>>>  =96Mark Twain
>>>
>>>  ------------------------------------------------------------
>>>  The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>  --=20
>>  "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the truth."
>>
>>  ------------------------------------------------------------
>>  The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>>
>
>
>
>--
>-Wilson
>---
>All say, "How hard it is that we have to die!"--a strange complaint to
>come from the mouths of people who have had to live.
>-Mark Twain
>
>------------------------------------------------------------
>The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org

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The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org