ont/ahnt
Jonathan Lighter
wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM
Thu Oct 7 15:19:30 UTC 2010
A lawyer connected with Blawg
Bred a cur with the firedrake Smaug.
So PETA filed suit
Against the old coot
For trying this out on the dog.
JL
On Thu, Oct 7, 2010 at 10:59 AM, Joel S. Berson <Berson at att.net> wrote:
> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> -----------------------
> Sender: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Poster: "Joel S. Berson" <Berson at ATT.NET>
> Subject: Re: ont/ahnt
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> At 10/6/2010 10:50 PM, Laurence Horn wrote:
> >At 9:47 PM -0400 10/6/10, Jonathan Lighter wrote:
> >>Those are good exx., Larry. Now I can write that poem.
> >>
> >>JL
> >
> >Right; three is enough for a limerick. The content may have to be a
> >bit forced, though...
>
> Add hawg.
>
> Joel
>
>
> >LH
> >
> >>
> >>On Wed, Oct 6, 2010 at 9:38 PM, Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at yale.edu
> >wrote:
> >>
> >>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> >>> -----------------------
> >>> Sender: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> >>> Poster: Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at YALE.EDU>
> >>> Subject: Re: ont/ahnt
> >>>
> >>>
>
> >>>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>
> >>> At 9:11 PM -0400 10/6/10, Jonathan Lighter wrote:
> >>> >Hog rhymes with frog and log. It has [ a:] as in gaga.
> >>> >
> >>> >Dog doesn't rhyme with anything I can think of offhand. It has
> >>> [D: ] as in
> >>> >"chalk").
> >>>
> >>> Ditto for me, essentially, but it *could* rhyme with other words. In
> >>> fact it rhymes with "blawg" (a law-based blog, with supposedly 3.95
> >>> million g-hits; not to be confused with "blog" itself, which of
> >>> course rhymes with "frog" and "log") and with "Smaug" (Tolkien's
> >>> dragon, which doesn't rhyme with "smog"), although I concede that
> >>> those are spelling pronunciations, since neither comes up much in
> >>> ordinary conversation.
> >>>
> >>> LH
> >>>
> >>> >
> >>> >On Wed, Oct 6, 2010 at 7:14 PM, Paul Johnston <
> paul.johnston at wmich.edu
> >>> >wrote:
> >>> >
> >>> >> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> >>> >> -----------------------
> >>> >> Sender: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> >>> >> Poster: Paul Johnston <paul.johnston at WMICH.EDU>
> >>> >> Subject: Re: ont/ahnt
> >>> >>
> >>> >>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>> >>
> >>> >> Dear Jonathan,
> >>> >> That's my pattern too. My wife makes fun of my pronunciation of
> both
> >>> dog
> >>> >> and hog, (She has [D]).
> >>> >>
> >>> >> Paul Johnston
> >>> >> On Oct 6, 2010, at 7:10 PM, Jonathan Lighter wrote:
> >>> >>
> >>> >> > ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> >>> >> -----------------------
> >>> >> > Sender: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> >>> >> > Poster: Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM>
> >>> >> > Subject: Re: ont/ahnt
> >>> >> >
> >>> >>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>> >> >
> >>> >> > Father and bother rhyme perfectly for me.
> >>> >> >
> >>> >> > Dog and hog don't. At all.
> >>> >> >
> >>> >> > JL
> >>> >> >
> >>> >> >
> >>> >> >
> >>> >> >
> >>> >> > On Wed, Oct 6, 2010 at 6:37 PM, Paul Johnston <
> >>> paul.johnston at wmich.edu
> >>> >> >wrote:
> >>> >> >
> >>> >> >> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> >>> >> >> -----------------------
> >>> >> >> Sender: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
> >
> >>> >> >> Poster: Paul Johnston <paul.johnston at WMICH.EDU>
> >>> >> >> Subject: Re: ont/ahnt
> >>> >> >>
> >>> >> >>
> >>> >>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>> >> >>
> >>> >> >> "CON"/"KAHN" would work as [kDn]/[kAn] in the Pittsburgh area,
> I
> >>> think,
> >>> >> and
> >>> >> >> neither would rhyme with "town", which would be [tan]. I just
> >>> checked
> >>> >> with
> >>> >> >> two colleagues of mine, one from Canonsburg, PA, the other from
> >>> >> Fairmont,
> >>> >> >> WV, and they had different vowels in father and bother (a
> >> > near-minimal
> >>> >> pair)
> >>> >> >> as [A] vs. [D] (rounded low vowel). The latter is LOT/THOUGHT
> for
> >>> them.
> >>> >> >> The former is, in Wells's terminology, PALM.
> >>> >> >>
> >>> >> >> Paul Johnston
> >>> >> >> On Oct 6, 2010, at 6:17 PM, David Wake wrote:
> >>> >> >>
> >>> >> >>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> >>> >> >> -----------------------
> >>> >> >>> Sender: American Dialect Society <
> ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> >>> >> >>> Poster: David Wake <dwake at STANFORDALUMNI.ORG>
> >>> >> >>> Subject: Re: ont/ahnt
> >>> >> >>>
> >>> >> >>
> >>> >>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>> >> >>>
> >>> >> >>> Can you offer a minimal pairs for these dialects? E.g.
> >> > "con"/"Kahn",
> >>> >> >>> perhaps? I thought that, with the exception of Eastern New
> >>> England,
> >>> >> >>> these dialects would all use their LOT vowel (rounded or
> >>> unrounded)
> >>> >> >>> for both lexical sets.
> >>> >> >>>
> >>> >> >>> D
> >>> >> >>>
> >>> >> >>> On Wed, Oct 6, 2010 at 11:16 AM, Paul Johnston <
> >>> >> paul.johnston at wmich.edu>
> >>> >> >> wrote:
> >>> >> >>>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> >>> >> >> -----------------------
> >>> >> >>>> Sender: American Dialect Society <
> ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> >>> >> >>>> Poster: Paul Johnston <paul.johnston at WMICH.EDU>
> >>> >> >>>> Subject: Re: ont/ahnt
> >>> >> >>>>
> >>> >> >>
> >>> >>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>> >> >>>>
> >>> >> >>>> Most dialects where the LOT class is a low back ROUNDED
> >>> vowel will
> >>> >> >> pronounce ont and ahnt differently, particularly because of the
> /n/
> >>> >> after
> >>> >> >> it-- Eastern New England, the area from Erie PA through
> Pittsburgh
> >>> down
> >>> >> into
> >>> > > >> West Virginia and into Kentucky, several Upper Southern
> dialects,
> >>> >> Canada--in
> >>> >> >> Eastern New England, the difference should be really striking:
> [D]
> >>> (I
> >>> >> mean
> >>> >> >> the IPA symbol for a low back rounded vowel here) vs. a front
> [a:].
> >>> >> >>>>
> >>> >> >>>> Paul Johnston
> >>> >> >>>>
> >>> >> >>>>
> >>> >> >>>> On Oct 6, 2010, at 10:23 AM, Joel S. Berson wrote:
> >>> >> >>>>
> >>> >> >>>>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> >>> >> >> -----------------------
> >>> >> >>>>> Sender: American Dialect Society <
> ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> >>> >> >>>>> Poster: "Joel S. Berson" <Berson at ATT.NET>
> >>> >> >>>>> Subject: Re: ont/ahnt
> >>> >> >>>>>
> >>> >> >>
> >>> >>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>> >> >>>>>
> >>> >> >>>>> At 10/5/2010 08:49 PM, Wilson Gray wrote:
> >>> >> >>>>>> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
> >>> >> >>>>>>
> >>> >> >>>>>> On Tue, Oct 5, 2010 at 5:45 PM, David Wake <
> >>> >> dwake at stanfordalumni.org>
> >>> >> >> wrote:
> >>> >> >>>>>>> "ont"
> >>> >> >>>>>>
> >>> >> >>>>>> In most dialects of AmE, "ont" = "ahnt."
> >>> >> >>>>>
> >>> >> >>>>> Can you give me some examples where it doesn't? And
> >>> please don't
> >>> say
> >>> >> >>>>> you won't.
> >>> >> >>>>>
> >>> >> >>>>> Joel
> >>> >> >>>>>
> >>> >> >>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
> >>> >> >>>>> The American Dialect Society -
> http://www.americandialect.org
> >>> >> >>>>
> >>> >> >>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
> >>> >> >>>> The American Dialect Society -
> http://www.americandialect.org
> >>> >> >>>>
> >>> >> >>>
> >>> >> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------
> >>> >> >>> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> >>> >> >>
> >>> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------
> >>> >> >> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> >>> >> >>
> >>> >> >
> >>> >> >
> >>> >> >
> >>> >> > --
> >>> >> > "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle
> the
> >>> >> truth."
> >>> >> >
> >>> >> > ------------------------------------------------------------
> >>> >> > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> >>> >>
> >>> >> ------------------------------------------------------------
> >>> >> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> >>> >>
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >--
> >>> >"If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the
> >> > truth."
> >>> >
> >>> >------------------------------------------------------------
> >>> >The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> >>>
> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------
> >>> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>--
> >>"If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the
> truth."
> >>
> >>------------------------------------------------------------
> >>The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> >
> >------------------------------------------------------------
> >The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>
--
"If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the truth."
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The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
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