very minor note on "lady"

[Karl Hagen]

Indian English (and the two Indian languages with which I have a small
familiarity--Tamil and Hindi) uses a parallel form of address, Many
Bollywood films will illustrate its use. In America, I've observed that
it's limited to addressing others of Indian ancestry.

For example, I have frequently heard 2nd generation Desis call older
Indian shopkeepers uncle or auntie, but the same people would never call
a non-Indian that.

Karl

On 04/17/11 22:33, victor steinbok wrote:
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> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Poster:       victor steinbok <aardvark66 at GMAIL.COM>
> Subject:      Re: very minor note on "lady"
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> This is not meant as any kind of meaningful addition to the story, but
> there is a bit of cross-cultural irony here, if one were to look into
> Russian phrasing.
>
> No "lady", but a polite familiar form of address (as opposed to
> "formal") to one's senior is usually the same words as "uncle" and
> "aunt". For someone particularly young addressing someone who is not
> familiar, particularly with a request (e.g., asking for directions),
> the form becomes diminutive, but with the same base. To politely
> address someone who is considered old--this is more of an absolute
> measure, but also includes the same relative component--one would use
> the diminutive for "grandpa" and "grandma". But informal and often
> less polite version of addressing an old man would be the equivalent
> of "grandfather", except that it's monosyllabic. For either a
> fraternal address or for an impolite address to an older man, you can
> just say the equivalent of "old man". To address a woman as "old
> woman" ([starukha]) is close to insulting.
>
> As I was just thinking about it, in light of this exchange, I only now
> realized how incredibly counterintuitive these connections are.
>
> VS-)
>
> On Mon, Apr 18, 2011 at 1:00 AM, Wilson Gray <hwgray at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> On Sun, Apr 17, 2011 at 8:07 PM, Jonathan Lighter
>> <wuxxmupp2000 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Thus, "auntie," as directed by whites toward older black women, seems to
>>> have originated as a neutral, even affable, usage. (I almost said "polite,"
>>> but let's not get carried away.)
>>>
>>
>> My WAG is that "aunt, uncle" were probably rgarded as sarcasm, when
>> applied to black women. I agree that, in the older usage, it was
>> clearly meant to be deferential. But "Aunt Jemima" and uncles "Ben"
>> and "Remus" were definitely in the serving class.
>>
>>
>> --
>> -Wilson
>
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