killing people and breaking things

Fri Apr 29 13:25:14 UTC 2011

I too associate the modern version with the Vietnam War, but GB seems to
offer nothing before Stephen King's _Christine_ in 1983, more than decade
later.

"The back of his jacket displayed a skull wearing a Green Beret and the
charming motto KILL EM ALL AND LET GOD SORT EM OUT."

For reasons that Victor suggests, the medieval quote may well have been
adapted (repeatedly) during the Vietnam War (perhaps originally on campus),
but I have no early evidence for it. My shaky recollection is that I first
heard the medieval version in Prof. Jill Claster's medieval history class at
NYU in 1970 or '71, but I can't say for sure. If so, it certainly was not
placed in a Vietnam context.

I have no evidence that any version of the saying was in *general* use at
the time. Wild-goose suggestion: It sounds like the sort of statement that
might have appeared in Gustav Hasford's _The Short-Timers_ (1979) (the
source of _Full Metal Jacket_), but GB offers no view.

JL

On Fri, Apr 29, 2011 at 7:23 AM, Dave Wilton <dave at wilton.net> wrote:

> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> -----------------------
> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Poster:       Dave Wilton <dave at WILTON.NET>
> Subject:      Re: killing people and breaking things
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> I too first heard the expression c. 1980. Although I remember it as
> "...destroy things," but that could be a memory glitch.
>
> The context was a retired general taking a senator to task for wanting to
> send in the military to do what we would now call "nation-building" (they
> didn't use that term). The sentiment was not taken as "contained" by the
> senator, who was quite shocked that someone would actually admit on
> national
> television that the army killed people.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: American Dialect Society [mailto:ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU] On Behalf
> Of
> Jonathan Lighter
> Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2011 6:35 PM
> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
>  Subject: Re: killing people and breaking things
>
> Dave's instructor in 1967 must have been some sort of visionary. GB upholds
> my impression that the phrase - as a cliche characterization - became
> common
> in print only after ca1980, and especially after 2001.
>
> The order of the activities is often reversed.
>
> As rhetoric, of course, it has the _faux_ childlike quality of "What if
> they
> gave a war and nobody came?" which was common enough in the late '60s
> (indirectly via Carl Sandburg).
>
> Moreover, "killing people and breaking things" (particularly in that
> emotionally anticlimactic order) makes death and destruction on any scale
> sound fairly contained and refreshingly satisfying. (Take that, enemy
> creeps! See ya!)
>
> That's why it usually appears in quotation marks. They allow the quoter
> some
> distance.
>
> JL
>
>
> On Thu, Apr 28, 2011 at 5:13 PM, Dan Goncharoff <thegonch at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> > -----------------------
> > Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> > Poster:       Dan Goncharoff <thegonch at GMAIL.COM>
> > Subject:      Re: killing people and breaking things
> >
> >
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ---
> >
> > In GB, this is a snippet view from Amazing stories: Volume 15, Issues
> > 1-6, dated 1941:
> >
> > "...I'll stamp around and I'll break things up and 'l'll kill people.
> > I want you. Master!" and thus it went, ceaselessly. "He remembers,"
> > whispered Clive. "He's mad!" "Not mad enough not to know what he
> > wants," said Jason."...
> >
> > DanG
> >
> > On Thu, Apr 28, 2011 at 4:38 PM, Neal Whitman <nwhitman at ameritech.net>
> > wrote:
> > > ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> > -----------------------
> > > Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> > > Poster:       Neal Whitman <nwhitman at AMERITECH.NET>
> > > Subject:      killing people and breaking things
> > >
> >
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ---
> > >
> > > I'm writing an article about the military use of "kinetic", as
> discussed
> > =
> > > here a few times. A friend who has served in the Army defined it as =
> > > "killing people and breaking things", which I've since learned is a =
> > > common summary of the purpose of an army. The earliest I've found this
> =
> > > phrase attested is from 1977, via Google Books:
> > >
> > >  Armies kill people and break things; therefore, their commitment =
> > > involves serious questions as to who will be killed, what will be =
> > > broken, and how long and by whom the effects will be felt. =20
> > >  Parameters: journal of the US Army War College: Volume 7, Issue 3 =
> > > (1977)
> > >
> > > Elsewhere, I've found it vaguely attributed to the Vietnam War era.
> Does
> > =
> > > anyone here know of earlier uses than 1977 for "kill(ing) people and =
> > > break(ing) things"?
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > >
> > > Neal Whitman
> > > Email: nwhitman at ameritech.net
> > > Blog: http://literalminded.wordpress.com
> > >
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>
>
> --
> "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the truth."
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