killing people and breaking things

Fri Apr 29 13:38:23 UTC 2011

More sophisticated searching finds two apparent (but not conclusive) GB
datings of a desk plaque and a poster, both  saying "Kill 'em all. Let God
sort 'em out," to 1979-80.

JL
On Fri, Apr 29, 2011 at 9:25 AM, Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at gmail.com>wrote:

> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> -----------------------
> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Poster:       Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM>
> Subject:      Re: killing people and breaking things
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> I too associate the modern version with the Vietnam War, but GB seems to
> offer nothing before Stephen King's _Christine_ in 1983, more than decade
> later.
>
> "The back of his jacket displayed a skull wearing a Green Beret and the
> charming motto KILL EM ALL AND LET GOD SORT EM OUT."
>
> For reasons that Victor suggests, the medieval quote may well have been
> adapted (repeatedly) during the Vietnam War (perhaps originally on campus),
> but I have no early evidence for it. My shaky recollection is that I first
> heard the medieval version in Prof. Jill Claster's medieval history class
> at
> NYU in 1970 or '71, but I can't say for sure. If so, it certainly was not
> placed in a Vietnam context.
>
> I have no evidence that any version of the saying was in *general* use at
> the time. Wild-goose suggestion: It sounds like the sort of statement that
> might have appeared in Gustav Hasford's _The Short-Timers_ (1979) (the
> source of _Full Metal Jacket_), but GB offers no view.
>
>
> JL
>
>
>
>  On Fri, Apr 29, 2011 at 7:23 AM, Dave Wilton <dave at wilton.net> wrote:
>
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> > -----------------------
> > Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> > Poster:       Dave Wilton <dave at WILTON.NET>
> > Subject:      Re: killing people and breaking things
> >
> >
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > I too first heard the expression c. 1980. Although I remember it as
> > "...destroy things," but that could be a memory glitch.
> >
> > The context was a retired general taking a senator to task for wanting to
> > send in the military to do what we would now call "nation-building" (they
> > didn't use that term). The sentiment was not taken as "contained" by the
> > senator, who was quite shocked that someone would actually admit on
> > national
> > television that the army killed people.
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: American Dialect Society [mailto:ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU] On Behalf
> > Of
> > Jonathan Lighter
> > Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2011 6:35 PM
> > To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
> >  Subject: Re: killing people and breaking things
> >
> > Dave's instructor in 1967 must have been some sort of visionary. GB
> upholds
> > my impression that the phrase - as a cliche characterization - became
> > common
> > in print only after ca1980, and especially after 2001.
> >
> > The order of the activities is often reversed.
> >
> > As rhetoric, of course, it has the _faux_ childlike quality of "What if
> > they
> > gave a war and nobody came?" which was common enough in the late '60s
> > (indirectly via Carl Sandburg).
> >
> > Moreover, "killing people and breaking things" (particularly in that
> > emotionally anticlimactic order) makes death and destruction on any scale
> > sound fairly contained and refreshingly satisfying. (Take that, enemy
> > creeps! See ya!)
> >
> > That's why it usually appears in quotation marks. They allow the quoter
> > some
> > distance.
> >
> > JL
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Apr 28, 2011 at 5:13 PM, Dan Goncharoff <thegonch at gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> > > -----------------------
> > > Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> > > Poster:       Dan Goncharoff <thegonch at GMAIL.COM>
> > > Subject:      Re: killing people and breaking things
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > ---
> > >
> > > In GB, this is a snippet view from Amazing stories: Volume 15, Issues
> > > 1-6, dated 1941:
> > >
> > > "...I'll stamp around and I'll break things up and 'l'll kill people.
> > > I want you. Master!" and thus it went, ceaselessly. "He remembers,"
> > > whispered Clive. "He's mad!" "Not mad enough not to know what he
> > > wants," said Jason."...
> > >
> > > DanG
> > >
> > > On Thu, Apr 28, 2011 at 4:38 PM, Neal Whitman <nwhitman at ameritech.net>
> > > wrote:
> > > > ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> > > -----------------------
> > > > Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> > > > Poster:       Neal Whitman <nwhitman at AMERITECH.NET>
> > > > Subject:      killing people and breaking things
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > ---
> > > >
> > > > I'm writing an article about the military use of "kinetic", as
> > discussed
> > > =
> > > > here a few times. A friend who has served in the Army defined it as =
> > > > "killing people and breaking things", which I've since learned is a =
> > > > common summary of the purpose of an army. The earliest I've found
> this
> > =
> > > > phrase attested is from 1977, via Google Books:
> > > >
> > > >  Armies kill people and break things; therefore, their commitment =
> > > > involves serious questions as to who will be killed, what will be =
> > > > broken, and how long and by whom the effects will be felt. =20
> > > >  Parameters: journal of the US Army War College: Volume 7, Issue 3 =
> > > > (1977)
> > > >
> > > > Elsewhere, I've found it vaguely attributed to the Vietnam War era.
> > Does
> > > =
> > > > anyone here know of earlier uses than 1977 for "kill(ing) people and
> =
> > > > break(ing) things"?
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > >
> > > > Neal Whitman
> > > > Email: nwhitman at ameritech.net
> > > > Blog: http://literalminded.wordpress.com
> > > >
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