killing people and breaking things

Fri Apr 29 14:41:16 UTC 2011

Yeah, but all we had back then were Monarch Notes and Cliff Notes. Education
was rugged.

JL
On Fri, Apr 29, 2011 at 10:14 AM, Garson O'Toole
<adsgarsonotoole at gmail.com>wrote:

> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> -----------------------
> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Poster:       Garson O'Toole <adsgarsonotoole at GMAIL.COM>
> Subject:      Re: killing people and breaking things
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Jonathan Lighter wrote
> > More sophisticated searching finds two apparent (but not conclusive) GB
> > datings of a desk plaque and a poster, both  saying "Kill 'em all. Let
> God
> > sort 'em out," to 1979-80.
>
> The expression "God sort all" occurs in Merchant of Venice.
> Undergraduates visiting the SparkNotes website are offered the gloss
> "I hope God figures it all out!"
>
> PORTIA
> Let me give light, but let me not be light.
> For a light wife doth make a heavy husband,
> And never be Bassanio so for me.
> But God sort all! You are welcome home, my lord.
>
> PORTIA
> I’ll give light to men, but I’ll never be light or unchaste. An
> unfaithful wife makes a husband worry, and I’ll never let Bassanio
> worry if I can help it. I hope God figures it all out! Welcome home,
> my husband.
>
> http://nfs.sparknotes.com/merchant/page_216.html
>
> > On Fri, Apr 29, 2011 at 9:25 AM, Jonathan Lighter <
> wuxxmupp2000 at gmail.com>wrote:
> >
> >> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> >> -----------------------
> >> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> >> Poster:       Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM>
> >> Subject:      Re: killing people and breaking things
> >>
> >>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>
> >> I too associate the modern version with the Vietnam War, but GB seems to
> >> offer nothing before Stephen King's _Christine_ in 1983, more than
> decade
> >> later.
> >>
> >> "The back of his jacket displayed a skull wearing a Green Beret and the
> >> charming motto KILL EM ALL AND LET GOD SORT EM OUT."
> >>
> >> For reasons that Victor suggests, the medieval quote may well have been
> >> adapted (repeatedly) during the Vietnam War (perhaps originally on
> campus),
> >> but I have no early evidence for it. My shaky recollection is that I
> first
> >> heard the medieval version in Prof. Jill Claster's medieval history
> class
> >> at
> >> NYU in 1970 or '71, but I can't say for sure. If so, it certainly was
> not
> >> placed in a Vietnam context.
> >>
> >> I have no evidence that any version of the saying was in *general* use
> at
> >> the time. Wild-goose suggestion: It sounds like the sort of statement
> that
> >> might have appeared in Gustav Hasford's _The Short-Timers_ (1979) (the
> >> source of _Full Metal Jacket_), but GB offers no view.
> >>
> >>
> >> JL
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>  On Fri, Apr 29, 2011 at 7:23 AM, Dave Wilton <dave at wilton.net> wrote:
> >>
> >> > ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> >> > -----------------------
> >> > Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> >> > Poster:       Dave Wilton <dave at WILTON.NET>
> >> > Subject:      Re: killing people and breaking things
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> >
> >> > I too first heard the expression c. 1980. Although I remember it as
> >> > "...destroy things," but that could be a memory glitch.
> >> >
> >> > The context was a retired general taking a senator to task for wanting
> to
> >> > send in the military to do what we would now call "nation-building"
> (they
> >> > didn't use that term). The sentiment was not taken as "contained" by
> the
> >> > senator, who was quite shocked that someone would actually admit on
> >> > national
> >> > television that the army killed people.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > -----Original Message-----
> >> > From: American Dialect Society [mailto:ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU] On
> Behalf
> >> > Of
> >> > Jonathan Lighter
> >> > Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2011 6:35 PM
> >> > To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
> >> >  Subject: Re: killing people and breaking things
> >> >
> >> > Dave's instructor in 1967 must have been some sort of visionary. GB
> >> upholds
> >> > my impression that the phrase - as a cliche characterization - became
> >> > common
> >> > in print only after ca1980, and especially after 2001.
> >> >
> >> > The order of the activities is often reversed.
> >> >
> >> > As rhetoric, of course, it has the _faux_ childlike quality of "What
> if
> >> > they
> >> > gave a war and nobody came?" which was common enough in the late '60s
> >> > (indirectly via Carl Sandburg).
> >> >
> >> > Moreover, "killing people and breaking things" (particularly in that
> >> > emotionally anticlimactic order) makes death and destruction on any
> scale
> >> > sound fairly contained and refreshingly satisfying. (Take that, enemy
> >> > creeps! See ya!)
> >> >
> >> > That's why it usually appears in quotation marks. They allow the
> quoter
> >> > some
> >> > distance.
> >> >
> >> > JL
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > On Thu, Apr 28, 2011 at 5:13 PM, Dan Goncharoff <thegonch at gmail.com>
> >> > wrote:
> >> >
> >> > > ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> >> > > -----------------------
> >> > > Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> >> > > Poster:       Dan Goncharoff <thegonch at GMAIL.COM>
> >> > > Subject:      Re: killing people and breaking things
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> > ---
> >> > >
> >> > > In GB, this is a snippet view from Amazing stories: Volume 15,
> Issues
> >> > > 1-6, dated 1941:
> >> > >
> >> > > "...I'll stamp around and I'll break things up and 'l'll kill
> people.
> >> > > I want you. Master!" and thus it went, ceaselessly. "He remembers,"
> >> > > whispered Clive. "He's mad!" "Not mad enough not to know what he
> >> > > wants," said Jason."...
> >> > >
> >> > > DanG
> >> > >
> >> > > On Thu, Apr 28, 2011 at 4:38 PM, Neal Whitman <
> nwhitman at ameritech.net>
> >> > > wrote:
> >> > > > ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> >> > > -----------------------
> >> > > > Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> >> > > > Poster:       Neal Whitman <nwhitman at AMERITECH.NET>
> >> > > > Subject:      killing people and breaking things
> >> > > >
> >> > >
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> > ---
> >> > > >
> >> > > > I'm writing an article about the military use of "kinetic", as
> >> > discussed
> >> > > =
> >> > > > here a few times. A friend who has served in the Army defined it
> as =
> >> > > > "killing people and breaking things", which I've since learned is
> a =
> >> > > > common summary of the purpose of an army. The earliest I've found
> >> this
> >> > =
> >> > > > phrase attested is from 1977, via Google Books:
> >> > > >
> >> > > >  Armies kill people and break things; therefore, their commitment
> =
> >> > > > involves serious questions as to who will be killed, what will be
> =
> >> > > > broken, and how long and by whom the effects will be felt. =20
> >> > > >  Parameters: journal of the US Army War College: Volume 7, Issue 3
> =
> >> > > > (1977)
> >> > > >
> >> > > > Elsewhere, I've found it vaguely attributed to the Vietnam War
> era.
> >> > Does
> >> > > =
> >> > > > anyone here know of earlier uses than 1977 for "kill(ing) people
> and
> >> =
> >> > > > break(ing) things"?
> >> > > >
> >> > > > Thanks,
> >> > > >
> >> > > > Neal Whitman
> >> > > > Email: nwhitman at ameritech.net
> >> > > > Blog: http://literalminded.wordpress.com
> >> > > >
> >> > > > ------------------------------------------------------------
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> >> > > >
> >> > >
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> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > --
> >> > "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the
> >> truth."
> >> >
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> >> > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the
> truth."
> >>
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> >> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> >>
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> >
> >
> > --
> > "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the
> truth."
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> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
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