Concept of Self-Fulfilling Prophecy

[Baker, John]

An Access Newspaper Archive search for the phrase "frenchmen can't be
wrong" finds nothing earlier than the 1927 song, so the song certainly
popularized and probably originated the phrase.  My guess is that the 40
million number came from speakers who were aware that there were not
then 50 million Frenchmen in France.


John Baker



-----Original Message-----
From: American Dialect Society [mailto:ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU] On Behalf
Of Jonathan Lighter
Sent: Monday, August 15, 2011 3:35 PM
To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
Subject: Re: Concept of Self-Fulfilling Prophecy

Naturally I can't prove this, but ISTR that when I was collecting WW1
slang
I found an assertion (post facto, certainly) that the phrase was in use
in
the army in 1918.

The most popular image of the French at the time was as indefatigable
defenders of liberty and their homeland. (I said "at the time.")

The third - not widely acknowledged in print - was that the French
rarely
bathed.

The second - even less widely acknowledged in print - was that the
French
were addicted to certain XXX-rated sexual activities that went far
beyond
"French kissing," if you get my drift.

So *if* the phrase did exist before the song, I suggest that it was as a
wink-wink nudge-nudge allusion to Mademoiselle from Armentieres and her
many, many acquaintances.

The alleged lyrics:
http://lyricsplayground.com/alpha/songs/f/fiftymillionfrenchmencantbewro
ng.shtml

seem consistent with this view, regardless of when the phrase
originated.

JL

On Mon, Aug 15, 2011 at 3:16 PM, Wilson Gray <hwgray at gmail.com> wrote:

> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> -----------------------
> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Poster:       Wilson Gray <hwgray at GMAIL.COM>
> Subject:      Re: Concept of Self-Fulfilling Prophecy
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------
>
> On Mon, Aug 15, 2011 at 2:59 PM, Ben Zimmer
> <bgzimmer at babel.ling.upenn.edu> wrote:
> > Interestingly enough, when Willie Raskin, Billy Rose, and Fred
Fisher
> wrote the
> > song "Fifty Million Frenchmen Can't Be Wrong" in 1927, the actual
> population of
> > France was pretty close to 40 million -- it wouldn't hit 50 million
until
> 1968,
> > says Wikipedia.
> >
>
> But, wasn't it just a saying, without any pretense that it reflected
> any kind of reality?
>
> BTW, thanks for the info WRT the song. I had no idea that there was a
> song with that title. Perhaps reading its lyrics will give me a clue
> to the point of the expression!
>
> --
> -Wilson
> -----
> All say, "How hard it is that we have to die!"---a strange complaint
> to come from the mouths of people who have had to live.
> -Mark Twain
>
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> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>



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