knock down argument (1681)

[Garson O'Toole]

Wlison wrote
> I ran across this while idly researching "a knock-down argument," a
> phrase that I'd never heard heard before 1972 at MIT, where it is/was?
> endemic in the linguistics dept. Then, I discovered that Lewis Carroll
> had used this turn of phrase. Quelle surprise! (Yes, it appears in
> _Alice_, but, astoundingly, I'd forgotten about that.) IAC, I can now
> date the phrase to 1806.
>
> I'm just messing around for personal enjoyment. Nevertheless, if
> anyone should have the earliest cite at the tip of his fingers and be
> willing to spare me the effort of finding it for myself ... :-)

Here are two sentences using "knock down argument" in a volume that
dates to 1681. Earlier cites exist I imagine.

Title: Dialogue upon Dialogue: or, L'Estrange No Papist nor Jesuite;
but the Dog Towzer: Shewed in a Short Plain Dialogue Betwixt
Philo-Anglicus and Philo-L'Estrange
Authors:        Philo-Anglicus (fict.name.), Philo-L'Estrange (fict.name.)
Page: 3
Published: London Printed for HB 1681
Google Books Archive - Original from Oxford University

Such convincing and knock-down Arguments? But they wont down with me.

But I have another Knock down Argument for you, and that must make you
of my Mind.

http://books.google.com/books?id=aSVcAAAAQAAJ&q=knock#v=snippet&


On Sat, Feb 19, 2011 at 7:50 PM, Wilson Gray <hwgray at gmail.com> wrote:
> ---------------------- Information from the mail header -----------------------
> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Poster:       Wilson Gray <hwgray at GMAIL.COM>
> Subject:      _Fag_ = "a horse for easy riding" or some such?
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> From:
>
> THE SPIRIT OF THE PUBLIC JOURNALS FOR 1805
>
> VOL. IX
>
> LONDON:
> ...
> 1806
>
> p.352
>
> A HORSE FOR AFTER DINNER
>
> AN EPIGRAM
>
> SAYS Sir Toby---" My friend, can you get me a nag
> That will ride very quiet---and serve as a _fag_?"--- [Emphasis supplied]
> " Yes, I've one that will suit you ; he's steady and mild,
> And so safe in his paces, he'd carry a child."---
> " A child !" says Sir Toby, " that is not the sort ;
> Do you think he can carry _two bottles of port?"_ [Emphasis original]
>
>
> http://goo.gl/ymowq
>
> I ran across this while idly researching "a knock-down argument," a
> phrase that I'd never heard heard before 1972 at MIT, where it is/was?
> endemic in the linguistics dept. Then, I discovered that Lewis Carroll
> had used this turn of phrase. Quelle surprise! (Yes, it appears in
> _Alice_, but, astoundingly, I'd forgotten about that.) IAC, I can now
> date the phrase to 1806.
>
> I'm just messing around for personal enjoyment. Nevertheless, if
> anyone should have the earliest cite at the tip of his fingers and be
> willing to spare me the effort of finding it for myself ... :-)
>
> --
> -Wilson
> -----
>
> All say, "How hard it is that we have to die!"––a strange complaint to
> come from the mouths of people who have had to live.
> -Mark Twain
>
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> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>

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