"we are two peoples separated by a common language" antedated & attributed

[Garson O'Toole]

Thanks to Stephen Goranson for locating the 1942 BBC cite.

In the 1920s a curiously different type of joke about the common
language of Great Britain and America was associated with George
Bernard Shaw. Here is a version in the New York Times.

Cite: 1923 March 2, New York Times, "Editorial Article 1 -- No Title",
Page 14, New York. (ProQuest)

At the Pilgrims' Dinner in London, the Chancellor of the Exchequer,
Mr. BALDWIN, remarked that "the fact that we speak a common language"
is really sometimes a hindrance to good relations between Great
Britain and America. He may have been vaguely recalling what BERNARD
SHAW once said, that the use of a common language merely enabled
England and America to understand the "insults" offered by the
representatives of one to those of the other. In that sense, the
Englishmen present must have been able to understand Ambassador
HARVEY'S speech.


Here is a version of the joke told by Shaw himself in 1924:

Cite: May 1924, Harper's Magazine, A Dialogue on Things In General
Between George Bernard Shaw and Archibald Henderson, [Article start
Page 705], Page 708, Column 2, Harper & Brothers, New York. (Harper's
Magazine online archive)

HENDERSON. You have been execrated for publicly asserting, prior to
the Washington Conference, that England wanted to fight America.
Perhaps you were misquoted. Like Nietzsche, you are a "good European."
May I ask whether you would like to see an alliance or union of the
English-speaking peoples?

SHAW. People should execrate me for things I have said, not for the
things that fools say I have said. I think there should be an alliance
of all the peoples who are psychologically homogeneous enough to share
one another's ideas. A common language certainly makes an alliance
easier; though you must not forget that it also makes quarreling
easier. The Americans and Chinese may utter endless insults to each
other and be none the worse, because neither understands the other;
but an American insult to the English or an English insult to the
Americans might lead to a war.

Garson

On Thu, Feb 24, 2011 at 11:57 PM, Baker, John <JMB at stradley.com> wrote:
> ---------------------- Information from the mail header -----------------------
> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Poster:       "Baker, John" <JMB at STRADLEY.COM>
> Subject:      Re: "we are two peoples separated by a common language" antedated
>              & attributed
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> If the Reader's Digest timing was the same in 1942 as in later years, =
> the November issue would have been published in early October.
> =20
> =20
> John Baker
> =20
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: American Dialect Society on behalf of Shapiro, Fred
> Sent: Thu 2/24/2011 8:27 PM
> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
> Subject: Re: "we are two peoples separated by a common language" =
> antedated & attributed
>
>
>
> Nice find, Stephen.  I had tried for years to antedate the Nov. 1942 =
> Reader's Digest occurrence.
>
> Fred Shapiro
>
>
>
> ________________________________________
> From: American Dialect Society [ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU] On Behalf Of =
> Stephen Goranson [goranson at DUKE.EDU]
> Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2011 2:35 PM
> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
> Subject: "we are two peoples separated by a common language" antedated & =
>             attributed
>
> Confirmed on paper:
> The Listener (London: British Broadcasting Corporation) 29 October 1942, =
>  Volume 28, no. 720, p. 550, col. 1,
> in a discussion, "Britain and America Today" (pp. 549-551):
> Raymond Gram Swing:....When we discussed this subject in [October] 1930 =
> we talked mostly about the need for knowledge and understanding. British =
> knowledge of America was inadequate then and American knowledge of =
> Britain was not so much better. And in the meantime I should say that =
> what our two peoples actually know of each other has not grown to be =
> anything like enough. Don't forget what Bernard Shaw said: that we are =
> two peoples separated by a common language.
>
> Stephen Goranson
> http://www.duke.edu/~goranson
>
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