LBS

Mon May 16 15:46:24 UTC 2011

Right.  So the IPA-ish notation for "pounds" is /paundz/ having a /d/ sound followd by a /z/ sound and not to be confused with /paundZ/ because /dZ/ is a two-letter combo to spell the typical English sound "j" as in "jet".

I wonder why upodn.com has "pound" as /pawndZ/ (with the Z as a special symbol looking like a 3).  I would assume the /au/ would be standard IPA.

Tom Zurinskas, first Ct 20 yrs, then Tn 3, NJ 33, Fl 9.
Learn the alphabet and sounds of US English at justpaste.it/ayk

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> Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 20:02:05 +0200
> From: laurence.horn at YALE.EDU
> Subject: Re: LBS
> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
>
> ---------------------- Information from the mail header -----------------------
> Sender: American Dialect Society
> Poster: Laurence Horn
> Subject: Re: LBS
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> At 4:15 PM +0000 5/15/11, Tom Zurinskas wrote:
> >Doesn't /dz/ take the ~j sound as in tradwerd=20
> >"Jim" /dzIm/? My mother's family name is=20
> >"Dzubak". They pronounce it ~Dizzuebak=20
> >(dih-ZOO-back), but in Ukraine it would be=20
> >~Juebak (JEW-back).
> >
> >Thus the problem with "pounds" foespeld as=20
> >/paundz/ ~poundz. In English one might assume a=20
> >/d/ followed by a /z/, but IPA has /dz/ as the=20
> >~j sound. Or is IPA dependent on a special=20
> >symbol for the /z/ in /dz/ ?
>
> IPA uses what we're writing as /Z/ for the final=20
> fricative in "beige" or the sibilant in=20
> "pleasure"; in IPA it's essentially a hooked ;=20
> see e.g.=20
> http://www.phonetics.ucla.edu/course/chapter1/chapter1.html=20
> and note the symbol for the post-alveolar=20
> (voiced) fricative. The corresponding affricate,=20
> as in "judge", isn't a simple sound phonetically=20
> but rather [dZ]. The IPA /j/ is a glide or=20
> semivowel (or technically a palatal approximant),=20
> typically in English, in German or Polish=20
> or Swedish. I didn't understand what you meant=20
> by saying "I wonder if /dz/ in /paundz/ would be=20
> taken for the IPA "j" sound", since I thought you=20
> were referring to the approximant as "the IPA 'j'=20
> sound'", but in any case the affricate in=20
> question isn't [dz], which would represent the=20
> final cluster in "buds", not that in "budge".=20
> And no, the IPA symbols aren't showing up in=20
> plain text, which is why we tend to use one of=20
> the standard conversion algorithms, yielding=20
> [dZ], [tS], [dh], etc. But I think we've been=20
> through all this.
>
> LH
>
> >
> >upodn.com for IPA has for
> >
> >pounds, mounds, sounds
> >pawndz, mawndz, sawndz
> >
> >jim, jane, badge, judge, saw, law author
> >d??m, d?en, b=E6d?, d??d?, s?, l=AE=AA ?=C9=90?r
> >
> >I don't know if the IPA symbols will show up in=20
> >the plain text that we must use here. It would=20
> >be nice to be able to use rich text. Can we not=20
> >do that somehow? We really need to.
> >
> >Tom Zurinskas, first Ct 20 yrs, then Tn 3, NJ 33, Fl 9.
> >Learn the alphabet and sounds of US English at justpaste.it/ayk
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >----------------------------------------
> >> Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 16:45:13 +0200
> >> From: laurence.horn at YALE.EDU
> >> Subject: Re: LBS
> >> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
> >>
> >> ---------------------- Information from the=20
> >>mail header -----------------------
> >> Sender: American Dialect Society
> >> Poster: Laurence Horn
> >> Subject: Re: LBS
> >>=20
> >>--------------------------------------------------------------------------=
> -----
> >>
> >> At 7:29 PM +0000 5/14/11, Tom Zurinskas wrote:
> > > >I wonder if /dz/ in /paundz/ would be taken for the IPA "j" sound.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >Tom Zurinskas, first Ct 20 yrs, then Tn 3, NJ 33, Fl 9.
> >> >Learn the alphabet and sounds of US English at justpaste.it/ayk
> >>
> >> ???
> >>
> >> LH
> >>
> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> >> >>-----------------------
> >> >> Sender: American Dialect Society
> >> >> Poster: Jonathan Lighter
> >> >> Subject: Re: LBS
> >> >>
> >> >>----------------------------------------------------------------------=
> ---------
> >> >>
> >> >> I wavered about the /d/, finally decided=20
> >>that either it was inauduble or too
> >> >> nearly inaudible to worry about in broad transcription.
> >> >>
> >> >> /'wadEv at r/.
> >> >>
> >> >> JL
> >> >>
> >> >> On Sat, May 14, 2011 at 4:43 AM, Tom Zurinskas wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> > ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> >> >> > -----------------------
> >> >> > Sender: American Dialect Society
> >> >> > Poster: Tom Zurinskas
> >> >> > Subject: Re: LBS
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >>----------------------------------------------------------------------=
> ---------
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Do we not say a wee bit of a "d" in "pounds"? In truespel ~poundz.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Note the letter string "au" is not used=20
> >>(in the top 5k most popular words)
> >> >> > to spell the ~ou sound (as in "out") in=20
> >>English. The only good choice for
> >> >> > an English based phonetic is ~ou.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Tom Zurinskas, Conn 20 yrs, then Tenn 3, NJ 33, now FL 9.
> >> >> > The FREE English-based phonetic converters, URL and text , are at
> >> >> > truespel.com
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> > > >> > -----------------------
> >> >> > > Sender: American Dialect Society
> >> >> > > Poster: Jonathan Lighter
> >> >> > > Subject: Re: LBS
> >> >> > >
> >> >> >
> >> >>----------------------------------------------------------------------=
> ---------
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > At least OBGYN (pronounced as letters) is shorter than something =
> even
> >> >> > more
> >> >> > > unwieldy.
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > But what's shorter than /paunz/?
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > Too surreal?: they don't know that "lbs." really means pounds.
> >> >>They think
> >> >> > > it abbreviates something that is the=20
> >>practical equivalent of pounds, but
> >> >> > not
> >> >> > > pounds themselves. Like "legal burden sizes" or something.
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > JL
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > On Fri, May 13, 2011 at 9:04 PM, James Harbeck wrote:
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > > ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> >> >> > > > -----------------------
> >> >> > > > Sender: American Dialect Society
> >> >> > > > Poster: James Harbeck
> >> >> > > > Subject: Re: LBS
> >> >> > > >
> >> >> > > >
> >> >> >
> >> >>----------------------------------------------------------------------=
> ---------
> >> >> > > >
> >> >> > > > >We recently discussed the unusual use of "tornado" in automate=
> d
> >> >> > National
> >> >> > > > >Weather Service Warnings.
> >> >> > > > >In a local Amber Alert this week,=20
> >>the abducted girl was described as
> >> >> > > > >weighing "115 /el bi es/", while her abductor weighed "184 /el=
> bi
> >> >> > es/."
> >> >> > > > >
> >> >> > > > >What's wrong with /paunz/? What's with these people?
> >> >> > > >
> >> >> > > > That's even worse than "oh bee gee=20
> >>why en" for OBGYN, which is short
> >> >> > > > for "obstetrician-gyncologist" and is sensibly (but seemingly l=
> ess
> >> >> > > > often) said /AbgaIn/ (forgive me if=20
> >>I'm using the wrong character for
> >> >> > > > the cursive small a here).
> >> >> > > >
> >> >> > > > James Harbeck.
> >> >> > > >
> >> >> > > > ------------------------------------------------------------
> >> >> > > > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> >> >> > > >
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > --
> >> >> > > "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle t=
> he
> >> >> > truth."
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > ------------------------------------------------------------
> >> >> > > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> >> >> >
> >> >> > ------------------------------------------------------------
> >> >> > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> >> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> --
> >> >> "If the truth is half as bad as I think it=20
> >>is, you can't handle the truth."
> >> >>
> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------
> >> >> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> >> >
> >> >------------------------------------------------------------
> >> >The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> >>
> >> ------------------------------------------------------------
> >> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> >
> >------------------------------------------------------------
> >The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org

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