Origin of the term "Upstate"

[Laurence Horn]

At 4:21 PM -0400 5/17/11, Jonathan Lighter wrote:
>And "upstate" refs. to prison in fiction usually alluded to Sing Sing, in
>the town of Ossining (on the Hudson)

whence all those dead-end guys would be (or at least get threatened
with being) "sent up the river"

>, though there are more "upstate"
>prisons now than long ago.
>
>JL

I just learned from a native (of the town, not the prison) that the
town housing the prison was itself originally called Sing Sing but
was later renamed "Ossining" as a kind of taboo avoidance.  (This
information isn't in Ossining's wikipedia entry, but I have no reason
to disbelieve it.)

LH

>
>On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 4:18 PM, Jonathan Lighter
><wuxxmupp2000 at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>>  OED doen't realize that "upstate" New York is "up" because it is north of
>>  NYC - or north of whatever part of the state the speaker is in.
>>
>>  "Downstate" is comparably south,  though without beingoriented to any
>>  specific location. "Downstate New York" is a rather odd-sounding phrase to
>>  me, but "upstate New York" could refer in theory to any place north of New
>>  York City, though I'd say it's usually restricted to the Hudson Valley and
>>  immediate environs, western New York being referred unimaginatively to as
>>  "Western New York State."
>>
>>  JL
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>  On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 3:15 PM, Joel S. Berson <Berson at att.net> wrote:
>>
>>>  ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>>>  -----------------------
>>>  Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>>>  Poster:       "Joel S. Berson" <Berson at ATT.NET>
>>>  Subject:      Re: Origin of the term "Upstate"
>>>
>>>
>>>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>>  Do you mean apart from or beyond the OED?  (Whose entries are from
>>>  the 1989 edition.)
>>>
>>>  upstate, adv., adj. n.
>>>
>>>  orig. and chiefly U.S.
>>>   A. adv.
>>>
>>>   1. In that part of a state which is (regarded as) higher than
>>>  another, or is more remote from the chief centre. Freq. with
>>>  reference to the State of New York.
>>>  1901    in N. Amer. Rev. Feb. 162   American girls..imported from
>>>  small towns up-State.
>>>  1938    J. W. Daniels Southerner discovers South 247,   I heard about
>>>  it upstate.
>>>
>>>  2. U.S. slang. In prison.
>>>  1934    T. Wilder Heaven's my Destination 23   You get the
>>>  strait-jacket..upstate.
>>>
>>>  B. adj.
>>>    Of, pertaining to, or characteristic of, an area upstate; situated
>>>  upstate, rural; also, designating part of a State remote (esp. north)
>>>  from a large city, as upstate New York.
>>>  1901    Daily Chron. 16 Sept. 3/7   All the up-State constituencies.
>>>  1904    Collier's 16 July 16/1   The crews of the up-State college
>>>  [Cornell].
>>>  1935    Amer. Speech 10 107   Pronunciation in upstate New York...
>>>  Upstate speech has been studied..by three previous investigators.
>>>
>>>   C. n. or ellipt.
>>>    An upstate region; a rural area.
>>>  1965 ...
>>>  ----------
>>>  downstate
>>>
>>>  U.S.
>>>    The part of a State outside a large city, esp. the southern part.
>>>  Also as adv.adj. Cf. upstate adv.Used in various parts of the U.S.
>>>  with varying local significance.
>>>  1909    Daily Maroon (Chicago) 2 Oct. 1/4   Springer, a husky
>>>  full-back from down-state.
>>>  1932    W. Faulkner Light in August iii. 58   She had gone to visit
>>>  her people downstate.
>>>  ----------
>>>
>>>  There are a number of Google Books hits for "upstate" from 1900 to
>>>  1909 that look genuine, all seemingly for New York State.  Some
>>>  possibly from 1841, 1850 (by Jacob Abbot, copyright page seen, author
>>>  is right period), and 1857, also New York.  Unfortunately, many false
>>>  positives, but the number of 1900s instances provide varying context.
>>>  ----------
>>>
>>>  "Down-state" shows in the 1900s decade also, from New York.  And not
>>>  surprisingly from Illinois, as early as 1901 (Public policy: A
>>>  journal for the correct understanding of public ..., Volume 5).  Too
>>>  many "go down State Street" and "broken down state".
>  >>
>>>  Joel
>>>
>>>  At 5/17/2011 01:49 PM, Chris Wholers wrote:
>>>  >This may be one of those questions that doesn't have an answer, but I'm
>>>  >trying to figure out if there's any documented origin for the term
>>>  "upstate"
>>>  >(and "downstate" as well).  Does anyone have any idea where these terms
>>>  were
>>>  >first used?  Or any hints as to where to look?
>>>  >
>>>  >
>>>  >Thanks,
>>>  >
>>>  >Chris
>>>  >
>>>  >------------------------------------------------------------
>>>  >The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>>>
>>>  ------------------------------------------------------------
>>>  The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>  --
>>  "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the truth."
>>
>
>
>
>--
>"If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the truth."
>
>------------------------------------------------------------
>The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org

------------------------------------------------------------
The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org