believe you me in oed
Garson O'Toole
adsgarsonotoole at GMAIL.COM
Fri Sep 23 21:31:31 UTC 2011
There is another "earlier" match in GB that is difficult for me to
analyze. Believe is bracketed and might be an insertion at a later
date. The date is unclear. Here's a link.
http://books.google.com/books?id=mT8CAAAAQAAJ&q=%22believe+thou%22#v=snippet&
On Fri, Sep 23, 2011 at 5:21 PM, Garson O'Toole
<adsgarsonotoole at gmail.com> wrote:
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> Sender: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Poster: Garson O'Toole <adsgarsonotoole at GMAIL.COM>
> Subject: Re: believe you me in oed
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Here is "Believe thou me" in 1805, I think
> .
> The Piccolomini's: A Drama In Five Acts from the German of Schiller
> [Friedrich Schiller]
> http://books.google.com/books?id=3EoHAAAAQAAJ&q=%22believe+thou%22#v=snippet&
>
> We've found, thank heaven each other! together will we cling,
> Firm, and for ever. - Believe thou me, that this,
> Is more for us than ever they intended.
>
> On Fri, Sep 23, 2011 at 5:10 PM, Jonathan Lighter
> <wuxxmupp2000 at gmail.com> wrote:
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>> Sender: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>> Poster: Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM>
>> Subject: Re: believe you me in oed
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> I was trying to cover the possibility that "believ'st thou me" might appear
>> as a question, a direct statement, or even an ungrammatical imperative. It
>> didn't. There were no hits on "believe thou me" either
>>
>> As a putative 18th C. imperative (with "you"), the question is still open
>> because of the
>> nearly 18,000 (presumably) false positives.
>>
>> JL
>>
>> On Fri, Sep 23, 2011 at 4:32 PM, Gordon, Matthew J.
>> <GordonMJ at missouri.edu>wrote:
>>
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>>> -----------------------
>>> Sender: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>>> Poster: "Gordon, Matthew J." <GordonMJ at MISSOURI.EDU>
>>> Subject: Re: believe you me in oed
>>>
>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> Maybe I'm missing your point, but the verb in "believe you me" is
>>> imperative, isn't it? So 2nd singular precedents wouldn't have the
>>> indicative -est suffix.
>>>
>>> -Matt Gordon
>>>
>>> On Sep 23, 2011, at 2:14 PM, Jonathan Lighter wrote:
>>>
>>> > ECCO finds nothing at all for the following:
>>> >
>>> > believest thou me
>>> >
>>> > believ'st thou me
>>> >
>>> > Then there are 17,000+ hits for "believe you me."
>>> >
>>> > Every one I've checked is actually no more than "believe me."
>>> >
>>> > Not that I've checked every one, but the total absence of the other forms
>>> > bodes poorly.
>>> >
>>> > JL
>>> >
>>> > On Fri, Sep 23, 2011 at 1:46 PM, Jonathan Lighter <
>>> wuxxmupp2000 at gmail.com>wrote:
>>> >
>>> >> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>>> >> -----------------------
>>> >> Sender: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>>> >> Poster: Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM>
>>> >> Subject: Re: believe you me in oed
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> >>
>>> >> I should say, "World War II writings by veterans," to be precise.
>>> >>
>>> >> They may all have decided to make it up years later, those rascals.
>>> >>
>>> >> JL
>>> >>
>>> >> On Fri, Sep 23, 2011 at 1:43 PM, Jonathan Lighter <
>>> wuxxmupp2000 at gmail.com
>>> >>> wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >>> Common in WWII, but more often "I shit you not."
>>> >>>
>>> >>> JL
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> On Fri, Sep 23, 2011 at 1:24 PM, Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at yale.edu
>>> >>> wrote:
>>> >>>
>>> >>>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>>> >>>> -----------------------
>>> >>>> Sender: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>>> >>>> Poster: Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at YALE.EDU>
>>> >>>> Subject: Re: believe you me in oed
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>
>>> >>
>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> There's "I kid you not", of Jack Paar (at least evanescent) fame.
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> LH
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> On Sep 23, 2011, at 10:39 AM, Jonathan Lighter wrote:
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>> Nice one, Dave.
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> Just check the syntax.
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> JL
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> On Fri, Sep 23, 2011 at 10:19 AM, David Barnhart <
>>> >>>> dbarnhart at highlands.com>wrote:
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>>> >>>>>> -----------------------
>>> >>>>>> Sender: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>>> >>>>>> Poster: David Barnhart <dbarnhart at HIGHLANDS.COM>
>>> >>>>>> Subject: believe you me in oed
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>
>>> >>
>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> The turn of phrase must go back further than 1808 (OED's earliest
>>> >>>> quote).
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>> >>>>>> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> --
>>> >>>>> "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the
>>> >>>> truth."
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>> >>>>> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>> >>>> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> --
>>> >>> "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the
>>> >> truth."
>>> >>>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> --
>>> >> "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the
>>> truth."
>>> >>
>>> >> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>> >> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>>> >>
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > --
>>> > "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the
>>> truth."
>>> >
>>> > ------------------------------------------------------------
>>> > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the truth."
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>>
>
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> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>
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