believe you me in oed
Jonathan Lighter
wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM
Fri Sep 23 21:40:38 UTC 2011
Looks good, Garson.
EEBO finds an apparent "believe thou me" in 1495, but it would take too long
for me to download the book.
Joannis Bramis, _Here begynneth a merry ieste of a shrewde and curste wyfe,
lapped in morrelles skin, for her good behauyour_ has both forms in 1580:
Gyue them what thou wilt I doe not care,
By day nor night man beleeue thou me:
What euer they haue or how they fare,
I pray God euell mote they thee.
. . .
These folke had two maydens fayre and free,
Which were their Daughters dere:
This is true, beleeue you me,
Of condicions, was none their pere.
There are a few other examples.
But very, very few.
JL
On Fri, Sep 23, 2011 at 5:21 PM, Garson O'Toole
<adsgarsonotoole at gmail.com>wrote:
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> Sender: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Poster: Garson O'Toole <adsgarsonotoole at GMAIL.COM>
> Subject: Re: believe you me in oed
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Here is "Believe thou me" in 1805, I think
> .
> The Piccolomini's: A Drama In Five Acts from the German of Schiller
> [Friedrich Schiller]
>
> http://books.google.com/books?id=3EoHAAAAQAAJ&q=%22believe+thou%22#v=snippet&
>
> We've found, thank heaven each other! together will we cling,
> Firm, and for ever. - Believe thou me, that this,
> Is more for us than ever they intended.
>
> On Fri, Sep 23, 2011 at 5:10 PM, Jonathan Lighter
> <wuxxmupp2000 at gmail.com> wrote:
> > ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> -----------------------
> > Sender: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> > Poster: Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM>
> > Subject: Re: believe you me in oed
> >
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > I was trying to cover the possibility that "believ'st thou me" might
> appear
> > as a question, a direct statement, or even an ungrammatical imperative.
> It
> > didn't. There were no hits on "believe thou me" either
> >
> > As a putative 18th C. imperative (with "you"), the question is still open
> > because of the
> > nearly 18,000 (presumably) false positives.
> >
> > JL
> >
> > On Fri, Sep 23, 2011 at 4:32 PM, Gordon, Matthew J.
> > <GordonMJ at missouri.edu>wrote:
> >
> >> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> >> -----------------------
> >> Sender: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> >> Poster: "Gordon, Matthew J." <GordonMJ at MISSOURI.EDU>
> >> Subject: Re: believe you me in oed
> >>
> >>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>
> >> Maybe I'm missing your point, but the verb in "believe you me" is
> >> imperative, isn't it? So 2nd singular precedents wouldn't have the
> >> indicative -est suffix.
> >>
> >> -Matt Gordon
> >>
> >> On Sep 23, 2011, at 2:14 PM, Jonathan Lighter wrote:
> >>
> >> > ECCO finds nothing at all for the following:
> >> >
> >> > believest thou me
> >> >
> >> > believ'st thou me
> >> >
> >> > Then there are 17,000+ hits for "believe you me."
> >> >
> >> > Every one I've checked is actually no more than "believe me."
> >> >
> >> > Not that I've checked every one, but the total absence of the other
> forms
> >> > bodes poorly.
> >> >
> >> > JL
> >> >
> >> > On Fri, Sep 23, 2011 at 1:46 PM, Jonathan Lighter <
> >> wuxxmupp2000 at gmail.com>wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> >> >> -----------------------
> >> >> Sender: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> >> >> Poster: Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM>
> >> >> Subject: Re: believe you me in oed
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> >>
> >> >> I should say, "World War II writings by veterans," to be precise.
> >> >>
> >> >> They may all have decided to make it up years later, those rascals.
> >> >>
> >> >> JL
> >> >>
> >> >> On Fri, Sep 23, 2011 at 1:43 PM, Jonathan Lighter <
> >> wuxxmupp2000 at gmail.com
> >> >>> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >>> Common in WWII, but more often "I shit you not."
> >> >>>
> >> >>> JL
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>> On Fri, Sep 23, 2011 at 1:24 PM, Laurence Horn <
> laurence.horn at yale.edu
> >> >>> wrote:
> >> >>>
> >> >>>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> >> >>>> -----------------------
> >> >>>> Sender: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> >> >>>> Poster: Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at YALE.EDU>
> >> >>>> Subject: Re: believe you me in oed
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>
> >>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> There's "I kid you not", of Jack Paar (at least evanescent) fame.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> LH
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> On Sep 23, 2011, at 10:39 AM, Jonathan Lighter wrote:
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>> Nice one, Dave.
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>> Just check the syntax.
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>> JL
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>> On Fri, Sep 23, 2011 at 10:19 AM, David Barnhart <
> >> >>>> dbarnhart at highlands.com>wrote:
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> >> >>>>>> -----------------------
> >> >>>>>> Sender: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> >> >>>>>> Poster: David Barnhart <dbarnhart at HIGHLANDS.COM>
> >> >>>>>> Subject: believe you me in oed
> >> >>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>
> >>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> >>>>>>
> >> >>>>>> The turn of phrase must go back further than 1808 (OED's earliest
> >> >>>> quote).
> >> >>>>>>
> >> >>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
> >> >>>>>> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> >> >>>>>>
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>> --
> >> >>>>> "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle
> the
> >> >>>> truth."
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
> >> >>>>> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
> >> >>>> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>> --
> >> >>> "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the
> >> >> truth."
> >> >>>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> --
> >> >> "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the
> >> truth."
> >> >>
> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------
> >> >> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > --
> >> > "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the
> >> truth."
> >> >
> >> > ------------------------------------------------------------
> >> > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> >>
> >> ------------------------------------------------------------
> >> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the
> truth."
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> >
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>
--
"If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the truth."
------------------------------------------------------------
The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
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