Breaking doubled consonants into syllables

[Laurence Horn]

On Aug 27, 2012, at 8:55 PM, Tom Zurinskas wrote:

> But when we say the word unnatural, it's with one "n" not two.  There's no vocal gap between them.   The same with non-native.


I'll take your word for it, Tom, but I'm not part of your "we", nor are the lexicographers I checked--the dictionaries seem to agree with me on "unnatural".  As for "non-native", it's not in AHD4, but "nonnegative", "nonnuclear", and "nonnegotiable" all are, and they're all entered with just the double consonants, so I assume "nonnative" would be as well, with or without the hyphen.

> We combine the n's to one ~n sound.

Again, your we doesn't include me.

> So its ~unnacherool and ~naannaetiv (two consonants start a stressed syllable).

Now I'm confused.  Two /n/s or one? And if two, what's the evidence they *start* a syllable, rather than the first being syllable final and the second syllable initial?

LH

> We could say these words splitting the n's with a pause, but that would be speaking ~unnacheroolee.
> The ~n sound is the most frequent sound of US English (when all schwas are spelled out in their underlying sounds)
>
> Tom Zurinskas, Conn 20 yrs, Tenn 3, NJ 33, now Fl 9.
> See how English spelling links to sounds at http://justpaste.it/course2
>
>
>
>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header -----------------------
>> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>> Poster:       Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at YALE.EDU>
>> Subject:      Re: Breaking doubled consonants into syllables
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> On Aug 26, 2012, at 5:35 PM, Tom Zurinskas wrote:
>>
>>> My take is that double consonants are never separated for syllabification if you go aurally.
>>
>> Really?  To me reducing the geminates in the un- and non- cases would be un…natural, if not downright non…native.
>>
>> LH
>>
>>> But if you go visually, then it's convenient to do.  I like to go aurally.One interesting is that double consonants can be a hint to stress.  They usually start a stressed syllable unless involved in suffixing according to the silent e rule.
>>>
>>> Tom Zurinskas, Conn 20 yrs, Tenn 3, NJ 33, now Fl 9.
>>> See how English spelling links to sounds at http://justpaste.it/ayk
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2012 16:59:22 -0400
>>>> From: laurence.horn at YALE.EDU
>>>> Subject: Re: Breaking doubled consonants into syllables
>>>> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
>>>>
>>>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header -----------------------
>>>> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>>>> Poster:       Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at YALE.EDU>
>>>> Subject:      Re: Breaking doubled consonants into syllables
>>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> Any cases of compounding like these, where each word contributes its own consonant, do retain their pronunciation except sometimes in fast speech. (I can imagine "bookcase" either with or without a double /kk/, for example.)
>>>>
>>>> LH
>>>>
>>>> On Aug 26, 2012, at 4:37 PM, Benjamin Barrett wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Does the example of "bookkeeping" and related words help? There aren't many words in English with geminates, but they do exist.
>>>>>
>>>>> Benjamin Barrett
>>>>> Seattle, WA
>>>>>
>>>>> On Aug 26, 2012, at 11:20 AM, Joel S. Berson wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Is there a general rule about breaking English words with doubled
>>>>>> consonants into syllables, either in speaking or in writing?  For
>>>>>> example, "canning" would be spelled and pronounced "can-ning", with
>>>>>> an N sound beginning the second syllable.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My speech says such a rule is not applicable to speaking.  For
>>>>>> example, I don't say "stop-ping" but rather -- I think --
>>>>>> "sto-pping".  (For my "canning" I can't tell.)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But I assume it applies to writing.  Are their counter-examples?
>>>>>
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