origin of dese dem dose in NYCE

[Jonathan Lighter]

My theory:

If the Dutch SWAG goes back far enough (i.e., before the 1930s), the
Germans were overlooked for the following reasons:

1. A Dutch influence would be far from obvious, therefore especially
exotic, interesting, and romantic, and requiring the most ingenuity to
think of and appreciate.

2. It was pleasant to believe that the features in question were
wonderful, albeit annoying, holdovers from the nearly forgotten days
of Peter Minuit.

3. To believe otherwise would be to admit that recent immigrants might
be responsible and would thus be subverting the noble English tongue.

4. Hmmm. German immigrants..... Well, they were higher on the ethnic
applause-o-meter than the Irish, Jews, Italians, Poles, Russians,
Hungarians, Greeks, Chinese, Syrians, etc.   But if German and
Austrian immigrants (who obviously didn't have the Darwinian mojo to
make it in Central Europe) might be responsible, so might romantic,
ambitious, pioneering, sharp-trading Dutch settlers in their steepled,
pilgrim-style hats.

5. So it was the Dutch.

JL

On Sun, Feb 12, 2012 at 11:12 AM, Dan Goncharoff <thegonch at gmail.com> wrote:
> ---------------------- Information from the mail header -----------------------
> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Poster:       Dan Goncharoff <thegonch at GMAIL.COM>
> Subject:      Re: origin of dese dem dose in NYCE
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> As a matter of history, New Amsterdam was the only large Dutch
> settlement in North America. They had smaller villages on the
> Connecticut, Hudson and Delaware rivers: the Puritans threw them out
> off the Connecticut, the Swedes replaced them on the Delaware, only
> the Hudson River contingent remained after the British takeover.
> DanG
>
>
>
> On Sun, Feb 12, 2012 at 10:52 AM, Ronald Butters <ronbutters at aol.com> wrote:
>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header -----------------------
>> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>> Poster:       Ronald Butters <ronbutters at AOL.COM>
>> Subject:      Re: origin of dese dem dose in NYCE
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Isn't it the case that this phenomenon is by no means confined to New =
>> York? Did the Dutch settle Boston  and New Orleans too? And the =
>> situation is compounded by the fact that in syllable-final position, one =
>> also hears [f].
>>
>>
>> On Feb 11, 2012, at 8:02 PM, Dan Goncharoff wrote:
>>
>>> I am very confused. I was under the impression that the use of
>>> articles starting with a d instead of th started in NYC about 350
>>> years ago, when the town was called New Amsterdam. The Dutch never
>>> left, and I suspect their influence on the NY accent didn't, either.
>>>=20
>>> DanG
>>
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