origin of dese dem dose in NYCE

[Victor Steinbok]

I thought the Dutch in the now-city were more "urbane" (traders and
craftsmen) and the ones on the river were farmers. The patrician estates
came later, as the earlier settlers claimed primacy over the later ones.
There is a recent article (2005) connecting American porches to
Old-World Dutch architecture, spreading from the Hudson Valley out. It
might be useful in getting at some of that history. http://goo.gl/x9qIN

     VS-)

NB: The link is only to the first page in JSTOR. Most libraries do not
subscribe to Winterhur Portfolio, so the article may have to be obtained
through ILL, if you need it.

On 2/12/2012 2:15 PM, Joel S. Berson wrote:
> At 2/12/2012 01:49 PM, Victor Steinbok wrote:
>> Wouldn't lack of these features in Downstate speech be sufficient to
>> negate the Dutch theory? If Dutch influence were responsible, shouldn't
>> it be heard all along the Hudson?
> Because the Dutch in the Hudson River Valley were patrician
> landholders of vast estates, and the Dutch in New York City were the
> lower sorts?  (I've lost track of where "it" is heard  -- NYC, up
> river, or both.)
>
> Joel

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