origin of dese dem dose in NYCE

[Jonathan Lighter]

The "Dutch" theory and others suffer fatally from the double
assumption that there was just one determining factor (a particular
foreign language or earlier English dialect) and that a little
reflection and "common sense" will identify it.

JL

On Mon, Feb 13, 2012 at 10:35 AM, Ronald Butters <ronbutters at aol.com> wrote:
> ---------------------- Information from the mail header -----------------------
> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Poster:       Ronald Butters <ronbutters at AOL.COM>
> Subject:      Re: origin of dese dem dose in NYCE
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> This vowel is also heard in New Orleans, and among older Black speakers =
> in the South. Not too bloody likely that the Dutch had much to do with =
> it.
>
> On Feb 13, 2012, at 10:23 AM, James A. Landau wrote:
>
>> There is a stereotype that people from Brooklyn pronounce /@r/ as /oi/ =
> or /ui/.
>> ("toidy-toid and toid avenue").
>>=20
>> Could this be, contrary to your statement above, a holdover from Dutc
>
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