origin of dese dem dose in NYCE

[Michael Newman]

Can you find any other evidence of Dutch or German influence outside of lexicon?
Michael Newman
Associate Professor of Linguistics
Queens College/CUNY
michael.newman at qc.cuny.edu



On Feb 13, 2012, at 6:01 PM, Dan Goncharoff wrote:

> ---------------------- Information from the mail header -----------------------
> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Poster:       Dan Goncharoff <thegonch at GMAIL.COM>
> Subject:      Re: origin of dese dem dose in NYCE
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> OTOH, the non-Dutch theory suffers from concluding that, although
> Dutch and German were a dominant foreign language in NYC from the
> beginnings of New Amsterdam through the 19th Century up to the General
> Slocum disaster and WWI, they are thought to have no influence
> whatsoever.
> DanG
> who wonders what accent the German-born John Jacob Astor spoke...
>
>
>
> On Mon, Feb 13, 2012 at 10:54 AM, Jonathan Lighter
> <wuxxmupp2000 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header -----------------------
>> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>> Poster:       Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM>
>> Subject:      Re: origin of dese dem dose in NYCE
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> The "Dutch" theory and others suffer fatally from the double
>> assumption that there was just one determining factor (a particular
>> foreign language or earlier English dialect) and that a little
>> reflection and "common sense" will identify it.
>>
>> JL
>>
>> On Mon, Feb 13, 2012 at 10:35 AM, Ronald Butters <ronbutters at aol.com> wrote:
>>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header -----------------------
>>> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>>> Poster:       Ronald Butters <ronbutters at AOL.COM>
>>> Subject:      Re: origin of dese dem dose in NYCE
>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> This vowel is also heard in New Orleans, and among older Black speakers =
>>> in the South. Not too bloody likely that the Dutch had much to do with =
>>> it.
>>>
>>> On Feb 13, 2012, at 10:23 AM, James A. Landau wrote:
>>>
>>>> There is a stereotype that people from Brooklyn pronounce /@r/ as /oi/ =
>>> or /ui/.
>>>> ("toidy-toid and toid avenue").
>>>> =20
>>>> Could this be, contrary to your statement above, a holdover from Dutc
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the truth."
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org

------------------------------------------------------------
The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org