1947 citing in Archie Comic of "butthole." What did it mean?

Wed May 2 19:52:56 UTC 2012

I've ordered the following title from Interlibrary Loan:

Montana, Bob. _Archie: The Complete Daily Newspaper Comics
1946-1948<http://www.alibris.com/booksearch?qwork=15803093&matches=25&cm_sp=works*listing*title>
_.  N.p.: IDW, 2010.

We shall see what we shall see.

JL
JL

On Wed, May 2, 2012 at 1:39 PM, Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at gmail.com>wrote:

> >  What's with them?
>
> Touche'.  A scan of all the digitized papers in the UT Libraries finds no
> mention of Archie comics on April 2, 1947.  Or any other time.  Part of the
> problem seems to be a) my ineptness at searching and b) that few of the
> papers are digitized further back than the '90s.  Big papers like the _L.A.
> Times_ and _Baltimore Sun_ are, but no Archie.
>
> Same with local papers.  Certain dates on microfilm "may be available," it
> says.
>
> Your quest is for just one single Archie strip of April 2, 1947, that
> doesn't feature the word "butthole."  Or, contrariwise, any paper regularly
> running Archie that strangely omits the strip on that day. (Which I've
> determined to have been a Wednesday. Could that be a clue?)
>
> However, your comment about the "sunset years" has not gone unnoticed here
> at Quest Central, where too they loom ever larger. Perhaps the Holy Grail
> of Jesus and Joseph would be a more fulfilling, as well as a less
> demanding, object?
>
> IAC, may the Farce be with you.
>
> Jon
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, May 2, 2012 at 1:11 PM, George Thompson <george.thompson at nyu.edu>wrote:
>
>> This is what I am to dedicate my sunset years to?  But it is a calling,
>> and I must put my hand to the plough without looking back.
>>
>> Nonetheless, I believe that many of our penpals live in cities, towns or
>> villages, and if so, they live near a library with a file of the local
>> newspaper -- to say nothing of the ones attached to a college with a
>> library.  What's with them?
>>
>> GAT
>>
>>
>> On Wed, May 2, 2012 at 12:45 PM, Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at gmail.com
>> > wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks for the note.  The combination of analytical skepticism by some
>>> and dogmatic assertion and hasty conclusions by others of this mostly Ph.D.
>>> community of obsessive-compulsives like myself is amusing and instructive.
>>>  It reminds me of my formative UFO-buff days, which I've alluded to.
>>>
>>> In this case, of course, there is proof that an unexplained phenomenon.
>>>
>>> My infuriatingly awkward search of NY State newspapers at Old Fulton NY
>>> Post Cards turned up nothing. I caught no refs. at all to the Archie strip
>>> in NY State papers before the '50s or '60s.  (Scully and Mulder were always
>>> coming up against this.)
>>>
>>> Someone must search further.  Someone with a professional familiarity
>>> with slang, yellowing newspapers, popular culture, and, yes, comic strips
>>> like Archie. How many such persons exist?
>>>
>>>  This, my friend, is your quest and your destiny. May the Farce be with
>>> you.
>>>
>>> Jon
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, May 2, 2012 at 11:50 AM, George Thompson <
>>> george.thompson at nyu.edu> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> I will spare our penpals this note on my failure to confirm or
>>>> otherwise:
>>>>
>>>> I was in the Vassar library yesterday, which has the San Frncisco
>>>> Chronicle and the Poughkeepsie New Yorker from 1947.  Neither carried
>>>> Archie.
>>>> Tomorrow I wil be in the SUNYNP library, which may have the
>>>> NYHeraldTrib.
>>>>
>>>> I may before long visit the Newburgh & Kingston PLs, and will check
>>>> those papers.  Maybe also Goshen, NY.
>>>>
>>>> I assume that someone has checked Proquest?  My connection covers the
>>>> WashPost, ChiTrib & LATimes.  I believe there are other papers.
>>>>
>>>> I think my old library had the WashStar, but no other paper on film
>>>> likely to have carried Archie
>>>>
>>>> GAT
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Apr 30, 2012 at 3:56 PM, Jonathan Lighter <
>>>> wuxxmupp2000 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> So basically we're back where we started.
>>>>>
>>>>>  It would be nice to see what the other papers ran that day, but it
>>>>> looks
>>>>> like we won't be doing that.
>>>>>
>>>>> Even if Bob Montana himself dug cigarette graves throughout World War
>>>>> II, a
>>>>> scabrous prank appears to be the most likely explanation.
>>>>>
>>>>> By either a letterer or the Lord of the Flies.
>>>>>
>>>>> JL
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, Apr 30, 2012 at 2:57 PM, Douglas G. Wilson <douglas at nb.net>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> > ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>>>>> > -----------------------
>>>>> > Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>>>>> > Poster:       "Douglas G. Wilson" <douglas at NB.NET>
>>>>> > Subject:      Re: 1947 citing in Archie Comic of "butthole." What
>>>>> did it
>>>>> > mean?
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> >
>>>>> > On 4/30/2012 11:57 AM, Jonathan Lighter wrote:
>>>>> > > ....
>>>>> > > But "Rumpole" isn't "Rumphole."  Would that have gotten by?
>>>>>  Anyway,
>>>>> > _butt_
>>>>> > > 'human posteriors, including the anus' seems more offensive
>>>>> > (theoretically)
>>>>> > > than _rump_ 'buttocks.'
>>>>> > >
>>>>> > > Nobody says, "Stick it up your rump(hole)!"  Or "up your
>>>>> bottom-hole!"
>>>>> > >   Nobody said usage makes sense. ....
>>>>> > --
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Of course an analogy is only an analogy.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > It's my impression that today's "rump-hole" (which "nobody says") is
>>>>> > analogous to 1947's "butt-hole" (which "nobody said"). Of course
>>>>> > "nobody" doesn't really mean _no_body, and so a few instances of
>>>>> > "butthole" used for "asshole"/"anus" doubtless can be found from the
>>>>> > 1940's just as Google will provide numerous examples of "rump-hole"
>>>>> used
>>>>> > like "asshole"/"anus" more recently. I believe "butthole" in 1947 was
>>>>> > overall infrequent, usually dialectal/idiosyncratic and/or a partial
>>>>> > euphemism, not recognizable to everyone especially in a strange
>>>>> > predicate-adjective context. I remember being mildly surprised at
>>>>> > hearing "butthole" used instead of "asshole"/"anus" in 1980 (IIRC I
>>>>> had
>>>>> > seldom or never heard "butthole" previously although from context I
>>>>> > immediately understood it). I still seldom hear it myself.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > "Rumpole" is about as much like "Rumphole" as "Arsole" is like
>>>>> > "Arsehole": I don't know what UK censors would have permitted ca.
>>>>> 1970,
>>>>> > but I think "Arsole" would at least have been generally immediately
>>>>> > noticeable as an 'obscenity' while "Rumpole" would not have been (or
>>>>> > were there many "Rumphole" jokes about the TV show?).
>>>>> >
>>>>> > I'm not sure which word is more offensive but I don't think it's
>>>>> > necessarily important in this context. I think any clear reference to
>>>>> > the anus or even the crotch (using any word or no word) in a popular
>>>>> > comic would have been avoided: imagine the comic figure saying "Gee,
>>>>> > Pop, I've got this itch, uh, you know, down in back between my legs,
>>>>> > since I used that talcum powder the guys gave me on April 1st."
>>>>> >
>>>>> > -- Doug Wilson
>>>>> >
>>>>> > ------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>>>>> >
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the
>>>>> truth."
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> George A. Thompson
>>>> Author of A Documentary History of "The African Theatre", Northwestern
>>>> Univ. Pr., 1998, but nothing much since then.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the
>>> truth."
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> George A. Thompson
>> Author of A Documentary History of "The African Theatre", Northwestern
>> Univ. Pr., 1998, but nothing much since then.
>>
>
>
>
> --
> "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the truth."
>

--
"If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the truth."

------------------------------------------------------------
The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org