1947 citing in Archie Comic of "butthole." What did it mean?

Wed May 2 20:12:29 UTC 2012

CAVEAT: It may be that the only reason that the problematic strip was found
 at all is that somebody saw it in the book and Googled it via Google News.

If it's in the book, it's ultimate significance may remain a mystery.

If it isn't, perhaps a prudish editor silently elided it in 2010.

But what if there's a different word entirely, as neatly lettered as you
please?

And could perusal of this work steer us to other papers that carried
"Archie" in 1947 for comparison?

Tune in next week....

JL

On Wed, May 2, 2012 at 3:52 PM, Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at gmail.com>wrote:

> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> -----------------------
> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Poster:       Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM>
> Subject:      Re: 1947 citing in Archie Comic of "butthole." What did it
> mean?
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> I've ordered the following title from Interlibrary Loan:
>
> Montana, Bob. _Archie: The Complete Daily Newspaper Comics
> 1946-1948<
> http://www.alibris.com/booksearch?qwork=15803093&matches=25&cm_sp=works*listing*title
> >
> _.  N.p.: IDW, 2010.
>
> We shall see what we shall see.
>
>
> JL
> JL
>
>
> On Wed, May 2, 2012 at 1:39 PM, Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at gmail.com
> >wrote:
>
> > >  What's with them?
> >
> > Touche'.  A scan of all the digitized papers in the UT Libraries finds no
> > mention of Archie comics on April 2, 1947.  Or any other time.  Part of
> the
> > problem seems to be a) my ineptness at searching and b) that few of the
> > papers are digitized further back than the '90s.  Big papers like the
> _L.A.
> > Times_ and _Baltimore Sun_ are, but no Archie.
> >
> > Same with local papers.  Certain dates on microfilm "may be available,"
> it
> > says.
> >
> > Your quest is for just one single Archie strip of April 2, 1947, that
> > doesn't feature the word "butthole."  Or, contrariwise, any paper
> regularly
> > running Archie that strangely omits the strip on that day. (Which I've
> > determined to have been a Wednesday. Could that be a clue?)
> >
> > However, your comment about the "sunset years" has not gone unnoticed
> here
> > at Quest Central, where too they loom ever larger. Perhaps the Holy Grail
> > of Jesus and Joseph would be a more fulfilling, as well as a less
> > demanding, object?
> >
> > IAC, may the Farce be with you.
> >
> > Jon
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Wed, May 2, 2012 at 1:11 PM, George Thompson <george.thompson at nyu.edu
> >wrote:
> >
> >> This is what I am to dedicate my sunset years to?  But it is a calling,
> >> and I must put my hand to the plough without looking back.
> >>
> >> Nonetheless, I believe that many of our penpals live in cities, towns or
> >> villages, and if so, they live near a library with a file of the local
> >> newspaper -- to say nothing of the ones attached to a college with a
> >> library.  What's with them?
> >>
> >> GAT
> >>
> >>
> >> On Wed, May 2, 2012 at 12:45 PM, Jonathan Lighter <
> wuxxmupp2000 at gmail.com
> >> > wrote:
> >>
> >>> Thanks for the note.  The combination of analytical skepticism by some
> >>> and dogmatic assertion and hasty conclusions by others of this mostly
> Ph.D.
> >>> community of obsessive-compulsives like myself is amusing and
> instructive.
> >>>  It reminds me of my formative UFO-buff days, which I've alluded to.
> >>>
> >>> In this case, of course, there is proof that an unexplained phenomenon.
> >>>
> >>> My infuriatingly awkward search of NY State newspapers at Old Fulton NY
> >>> Post Cards turned up nothing. I caught no refs. at all to the Archie
> strip
> >>> in NY State papers before the '50s or '60s.  (Scully and Mulder were
> always
> >>> coming up against this.)
> >>>
> >>> Someone must search further.  Someone with a professional familiarity
> >>> with slang, yellowing newspapers, popular culture, and, yes, comic
> strips
> >>> like Archie. How many such persons exist?
> >>>
> >>>  This, my friend, is your quest and your destiny. May the Farce be with
> >>> you.
> >>>
> >>> Jon
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Wed, May 2, 2012 at 11:50 AM, George Thompson <
> >>> george.thompson at nyu.edu> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>> I will spare our penpals this note on my failure to confirm or
> >>>> otherwise:
> >>>>
> >>>> I was in the Vassar library yesterday, which has the San Frncisco
> >>>> Chronicle and the Poughkeepsie New Yorker from 1947.  Neither carried
> >>>> Archie.
> >>>> Tomorrow I wil be in the SUNYNP library, which may have the
> >>>> NYHeraldTrib.
> >>>>
> >>>> I may before long visit the Newburgh & Kingston PLs, and will check
> >>>> those papers.  Maybe also Goshen, NY.
> >>>>
> >>>> I assume that someone has checked Proquest?  My connection covers the
> >>>> WashPost, ChiTrib & LATimes.  I believe there are other papers.
> >>>>
> >>>> I think my old library had the WashStar, but no other paper on film
> >>>> likely to have carried Archie
> >>>>
> >>>> GAT
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On Mon, Apr 30, 2012 at 3:56 PM, Jonathan Lighter <
> >>>> wuxxmupp2000 at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> So basically we're back where we started.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>  It would be nice to see what the other papers ran that day, but it
> >>>>> looks
> >>>>> like we won't be doing that.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Even if Bob Montana himself dug cigarette graves throughout World War
> >>>>> II, a
> >>>>> scabrous prank appears to be the most likely explanation.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> By either a letterer or the Lord of the Flies.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> JL
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Mon, Apr 30, 2012 at 2:57 PM, Douglas G. Wilson <douglas at nb.net>
> >>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> > ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> >>>>> > -----------------------
> >>>>> > Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> >>>>> > Poster:       "Douglas G. Wilson" <douglas at NB.NET>
> >>>>> > Subject:      Re: 1947 citing in Archie Comic of "butthole." What
> >>>>> did it
> >>>>> > mean?
> >>>>> >
> >>>>> >
> >>>>>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>>> >
> >>>>> > On 4/30/2012 11:57 AM, Jonathan Lighter wrote:
> >>>>> > > ....
> >>>>> > > But "Rumpole" isn't "Rumphole."  Would that have gotten by?
> >>>>>  Anyway,
> >>>>> > _butt_
> >>>>> > > 'human posteriors, including the anus' seems more offensive
> >>>>> > (theoretically)
> >>>>> > > than _rump_ 'buttocks.'
> >>>>> > >
> >>>>> > > Nobody says, "Stick it up your rump(hole)!"  Or "up your
> >>>>> bottom-hole!"
> >>>>> > >   Nobody said usage makes sense. ....
> >>>>> > --
> >>>>> >
> >>>>> > Of course an analogy is only an analogy.
> >>>>> >
> >>>>> > It's my impression that today's "rump-hole" (which "nobody says")
> is
> >>>>> > analogous to 1947's "butt-hole" (which "nobody said"). Of course
> >>>>> > "nobody" doesn't really mean _no_body, and so a few instances of
> >>>>> > "butthole" used for "asshole"/"anus" doubtless can be found from
> the
> >>>>> > 1940's just as Google will provide numerous examples of "rump-hole"
> >>>>> used
> >>>>> > like "asshole"/"anus" more recently. I believe "butthole" in 1947
> was
> >>>>> > overall infrequent, usually dialectal/idiosyncratic and/or a
> partial
> >>>>> > euphemism, not recognizable to everyone especially in a strange
> >>>>> > predicate-adjective context. I remember being mildly surprised at
> >>>>> > hearing "butthole" used instead of "asshole"/"anus" in 1980 (IIRC I
> >>>>> had
> >>>>> > seldom or never heard "butthole" previously although from context I
> >>>>> > immediately understood it). I still seldom hear it myself.
> >>>>> >
> >>>>> > "Rumpole" is about as much like "Rumphole" as "Arsole" is like
> >>>>> > "Arsehole": I don't know what UK censors would have permitted ca.
> >>>>> 1970,
> >>>>> > but I think "Arsole" would at least have been generally immediately
> >>>>> > noticeable as an 'obscenity' while "Rumpole" would not have been
> (or
> >>>>> > were there many "Rumphole" jokes about the TV show?).
> >>>>> >
> >>>>> > I'm not sure which word is more offensive but I don't think it's
> >>>>> > necessarily important in this context. I think any clear reference
> to
> >>>>> > the anus or even the crotch (using any word or no word) in a
> popular
> >>>>> > comic would have been avoided: imagine the comic figure saying
> "Gee,
> >>>>> > Pop, I've got this itch, uh, you know, down in back between my
> legs,
> >>>>> > since I used that talcum powder the guys gave me on April 1st."
> >>>>> >
> >>>>> > -- Doug Wilson
> >>>>> >
> >>>>> > ------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>>> > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> >>>>> >
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> --
> >>>>> "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the
> >>>>> truth."
> >>>>>
> >>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>>> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> --
> >>>> George A. Thompson
> >>>> Author of A Documentary History of "The African Theatre", Northwestern
> >>>> Univ. Pr., 1998, but nothing much since then.
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the
> >>> truth."
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> George A. Thompson
> >> Author of A Documentary History of "The African Theatre", Northwestern
> >> Univ. Pr., 1998, but nothing much since then.
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the
> truth."
> >
>
>
>
> --
> "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the truth."
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>

--
"If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the truth."

------------------------------------------------------------
The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org