In re St. Louis English

[Joel S. Berson]

At 4/27/2013 11:25 AM, Laurence Horn wrote:
>As I think I (and probably others) have previously mentioned,
>"far-ist" is also part of my native New Yorkese (now variably unlcarned),

Moi, but with a preference for "far-ist".

>but not "farty-far".  I wonder if it's /Or/~/ar/ in open syllable
>environments (orange, moral, corridor) but not closed ones (forty,
>four, York) or if there's more to it.

All also mine, except that for me "moral" has become variable.

Joel


>LH
>
>On Apr 27, 2013, at 1:37 AM, Wilson Gray wrote:
>
> > After listening to the St. Louis video a couple of more times, I began ti
> > feel the the speakers were exaggerating for effect in their pronunciation
> > of "44" and "forest" as "farty-far" and "far-ist."
> >
> > However, I've since heard St. Louis native Dr. G saying "New "Yark" and
> > "New Yarkers."
> >
> > And then, there's the word, "shark," that I once used in place of "short"
> > for "car." I don't have the BE rule that changes final T to K and I read a
> > lot. So, I've always said, e.g. "come[t]" and never "come[k]." But, in the
> > case of "short" as a slang term, I learned it only from hearing it spoken
> > and there was no reason for me to use any pronunciation other than the one
> > that I heard and no reason to correct that pronunciation to "shart."
> >
> > The pronuncistion that I heard and, hence, used was "shark."
> >
> > So, I conclude that "farty-far' and "far-ist" are real, unexaggerated
> > examples of StL-speak.
> >
> > After I moved to L.A., it took me some time to realize that The Beach Boys'
> > "short" was the same slang-word as the "shark" of StL BE. Like, I could see
> > some motive for calling a car a "shark." Cf. Chuck Berry and his reference
> > to "a car that'll eat up the road." A shark eats up the ocean, so to speak.
> > But, what connection is there between a car and a "short"?
> >
> > It's not obvious me, semantically.
> > --
> > -Wilson
> > -----
> > All say, "How hard it is that we have to die!"---a strange complaint to
> > come from the mouths of people who have had to live.
> > -Mark Twain
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>
>------------------------------------------------------------
>The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org

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The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org