"should/ would" opinions please

[Jonathan Lighter]

The author of the grumpy _Write it Right_ (1909), the largely self-educated
Bierce was notably reactionary as a stylist and grammarian. One critic,
IIRC, implies that he was an eighteenth-century writer trapped in the
nineteenth and early twentieth.

I raised the question because the sentence concludes Bierce's essay and is
therefore unusually significant. It's hard for me to imagine  the average
American of today, or even of fifty years ago, understanding, without some
serious reflective consideration, what Bierce actually meant .

JL


On Mon, Apr 29, 2013 at 11:48 AM, Joel S. Berson <Berson at att.net> wrote:

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> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Poster:       "Joel S. Berson" <Berson at ATT.NET>
> Subject:      Re: "should/ would" opinions please
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> At 4/29/2013 09:59 AM, Jonathan Lighter wrote:
> >Thanks all.
> >
> >I think Doug is correct.
>
> I definitely agree (certainly for the 18th century) with his
>  > I think "an other" = "a different" in usual modern writing, not exactly
>  > the same as usual modern "another".
>
> "Shall/should" is too complex for me!  But my feeling (perhaps
> subconsciously instilled by my reading in 18th and early 19th century
> stuff) agrees with Jon -- we should/would/might say today "might", or "had
> I".
>
> Joel
>
>
>
> >J
> >
> >
> >On Sun, Apr 28, 2013 at 3:12 PM, Douglas G. Wilson <douglas at nb.net>
> wrote:
> >
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> > > Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> > > Poster:       "Douglas G. Wilson" <douglas at NB.NET>
> > > Subject:      Re: "should/ would" opinions please
> > >
> > >
> >
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >
> > > On 4/28/2013 12:50 PM, Jonathan Lighter wrote:
> > > > ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> > > -----------------------
> > > > Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> > > > Poster:       Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM>
> > > > Subject:      "should/ would" opinions please
> > > >
> > >
> >
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > >
> > > > Here's an interesting "should/would" question with a dash of "might"
> for
> > > > those more attuned to 19th C. nuance than I am.
> > > >
> > > > In an 1881 essay on the battle of Shiloh, Ambrose Bierce concludes by
> > > > waxing poetic in the following terms:
> > > >
> > > > "Ah, Youth, there is no such wizard as thou! =85[G]ild for but one
> > > moment t=
> > > > he
> > > > drear and somber scenes of to-day, and I will willingly surrender an
> > > other
> > > > [sic] life than the one that I should have thrown away at Shiloh."
> > > >
> > > > I can't believe (from the broader context) he means that he "should"
> have
> > > > thrown his life away; merely that he "might" have (by being killed).
> > >  (The
> > > > "other" life involved, in contrast to his adventurous youth, is his
> drab
> > > > post-bellum existence.)
> > > >
> > > > Whatever Bierce may mean, I don't feel that my sprakgefool is sharp
> > > enough
> > > > to determine the nuances of "should" and "would" in this case.
> > > >
> > > > How do others interpret Bierce's meaning?
> > > --
> > >
> > > I think "an other" = "a different" in usual modern writing, not exactly
> > > the same as usual modern "another".
> > >
> > > I think "should have" = "would have": I think in isolation it is
> > > ambiguous as to whether an element of will[ingness] is implied: perhaps
> > > this would be clear to one who has carefully read the whole piece (and
> > > other Bierce).
> > >
> > > So I would think
> > >
> > > <<and I will willingly surrender an other life than the one that I
> > > should have thrown away at Shiloh>>
> > >
> > > can be paraphrased
> > >
> > > <<and I will willingly surrender my current life, which is [so]
> > > different from my youthful life, which I would have thrown away at
> Shiloh>>
> > >
> > > with
> > >
> > > <<would have thrown away>>
> > >
> > > meaning either
> > >
> > > <<might have thrown away (had things gone a little differently)>>
> > >
> > > or
> > >
> > > <<would willingly have thrown away / risked (in the recklessness of my
> > > youth)>>
> > >
> > > [Of course, when one waxes, some fine features may be lost.]
> > >
> > > -- Doug Wilson
> > >
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> >
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> truth."
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"If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the truth."

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