diacritical marks WAS Re: Word (Phrase?) of the Year (so far)?; Rambo'd (UNCLASSIFIED)

[Mullins, Bill AMRDEC]

Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
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Then shouldn't his name be pronounced more like "SERT-zay" than "SOH-say"?

> -----Original Message-----
> From: American Dialect Society [mailto:ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU] On
> Behalf Of Dan Goncharoff
> Sent: Friday, February 01, 2013 9:15 PM
> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
> Subject: Re: diacritical marks WAS Re: Word (Phrase?) of the Year (so
> far)?; Rambo'd (UNCLASSIFIED)
>
> ---------------------- Information from the mail header ---------------
> --------
> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Poster:       Dan Goncharoff <thegonch at GMAIL.COM>
> Subject:      Re: diacritical marks WAS Re: Word (Phrase?) of the Year
> (so
>               far)?; Rambo'd (UNCLASSIFIED)
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> --------
>
> The umlaut in Keyser's name is indeed an umlaut. His father is supposed
> to be German, even though he is himself Turkish.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jan 31, 2013, at 8:27 PM, Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at yale.edu>
> wrote:
>
> > ---------------------- Information from the mail header -------------
> ----------
> > Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> > Poster:       Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at YALE.EDU>
> > Subject:      Re: diacritical marks WAS Re: Word (Phrase?) of the
> Year (so
> >              far)?; Rambo'd (UNCLASSIFIED)
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> -
> > ---------
> >
> > On Jan 31, 2013, at 5:07 PM, Dan Goncharoff wrote:
> >
> >> I always thought the word umlaut was reserved for German; in other
> >> languages, including the one the New Yorker magazine is written in,
> >> the word is diaeresis. There is also a difference in meaning -- the
> >> vowels with an umlaut can also be written with a following 'e', but
> >> the diaeresis allows for no such convention.
> >>
> >> We discussed this here within the last few years.
> >>
> >> DanG
> >>
> > We probably did, and I probably said then too that the function of
> the double dots is crucial in distinguishing umlauts from diaereses;
> the Turkish fronted vowels are much more like the German ones than they
> are like the vowels in English and French that wear diaereses to show
> that they're pronounced separately from the preceding vowels.  The o in
> S�ze is not (and is not decorated with) a diaeresis, but rather is an
> umlauted vowel.  The OED on diaeresis:
> >
> > 1 a. The division of one syllable into two, esp. by the separation of
> a diphthong into two simple vowels.
> >   b. The sign [�] marking such a division, or, more usually, placed
> over the second of two vowels which otherwise make a diphthong or
> single sound, to indicate that they are to be pronounced separately.
> >
> > Nothing of that sort is happening with "S�ze".  The question of
> when the tradition of a following "e" can be used is a separate one;
> I've never seen that used for Turkish umlauted vowels either, but it
> may be for all I know.
> >
> > LH
> >>
> >> On Thu, Jan 31, 2013 at 4:50 PM, Mullins, Bill AMRDEC <
> >> Bill.Mullins at us.army.mil> wrote:
> >>
> >>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> >>> -----------------------
> >>> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> >>> Poster:       "Mullins, Bill AMRDEC" <Bill.Mullins at US.ARMY.MIL>
> >>> Subject:      diacritical marks WAS     Re: Word (Phrase?) of the
> Year (so
> >>>             far)?; Rambo'd (UNCLASSIFIED)
> >>>
> >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------
> -
> >>> -----------
> >>>
> >>> Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
> >>> Caveats: NONE
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>> The Wikipedia entry for "The Usual Suspects uses the spelling
> >>>> Keyser Soze with an umlaut over the o. Jonathan Lighter sent a
> >>>> message to the list on June 2, 2011 about the "Keyser Soeze
> >>>> syndrome" that is
> >>> somewhat
> >>>> similar.  Dan Goncharoff sent a message about the "Keyser Soeze
> >>>> syndrome" which concerns twist endings for films
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> From my high school German, I remember that an umlaut is the
> >>> double-dot that goes over o (for the OE sound), the u (UE), and a
> >>> (AE).  "Keyser Soze" (and the "o" in "Soze" had a double-dot) was a
> >>> Turkish name, I believe.  Should it still be called an umlaut?  Is
> >>> "umlaut" the general name for a double-dot mark over a vowel?  (or
> >>> possibly consonants, as in "Spinal Tap", in which case the "n" had
> a
> >>> double-dot?)
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
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> >>>
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> >>>
> >>
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