A, V, or M; also "bigger vs. larger"

Sun Feb 17 15:35:10 UTC 2013

My recollection is that on the TV program "Twenty Questions" "animal,
vegetable, or mineral" was a freebie -- that is, the panel was told
which. But it was a long time ago.

I used "larger than a breadbox" for parallel construction -- the
NYTimes had used "larger than a boulder".  I assume they did not use
"bigger" because "larger" is a more precise measure.

Joel

At 2/17/2013 12:15 AM, Laurence Horn wrote:
>On Feb 16, 2013, at 11:45 PM, Jocelyn Limpert wrote:
>
> > My "authority" for the "breadbox" origin being from Steve Allen and not
> > from "Twenty Questions" is the following from my long-time friend and
> > long-time former Washington Post TV Critic Tom Shales, a most reliable
> > source of all kinds of TV trivia:
> >
> > "I dont mind being quoted or mind not being but i AM certain that it's
> > "bigger"  than a bread box & that Mr Allen wittily invented the question.
> > Guests on what's my line often dealt in a "product" & Steve invented this
> > clever way of estimating the product's size (the panelists' questions  had
> > to be answerable with a yes or no).
> >
> > "That "animal vegetable or mineral" thing strikes a responsive chord but I
> > cannot remember what show it was used on.
>
>It was the free clue at the beginning of 20 Questions the way we
>played it.  Maybe (if I can extrapolate from
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twenty_Questions) that was a blend of
>the original 20 Questions game and a separate "A, V, or M?" game.
>The 20 Questions questions also had to be answered yes or no, so
>that doesn't distinguish between the two (although it does show that
>the "A, V, or M?" couldn't be part of the game itself, or the only
>appropriate answer would have been "Yes"), and if anything the
>breadbox question would be even more relevant to 20Q than What's My
>Line, since not all of the occupations in the latter involved
>selling or making a particular product.  But as I say I don't really
>know who had it first.  And besides having been a fan of Steve Allen
>I was a classmate of Arlene Francis's son, so I wouldn't want to deprecate WML.
>
>LH
>
> > Of course being used on a show
> > doesn't mean it was invented for that show but the "breadbox" line was. A
> > genuine moment of inspiration!"
> >
> > And, of course, I've since found the reference to the "Twenty
> Questions" TV.
> >
> >
> > On Sat, Feb 16, 2013 at 11:32 PM, Laurence Horn
> <laurence.horn at yale.edu>wrote:
> >
> >> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> >> -----------------------
> >> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> >> Poster:       Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at YALE.EDU>
> >> Subject:      Re: The precise terminology of modern science
> >>
> >>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>
> >> On Feb 16, 2013, at 11:13 PM, Jocelyn Limpert wrote:
> >>
> >>> Yes, there was a TV show, "Twenty Questions."
> >>
> >> Oops.  Of course there was.  What was(n't) I thinking?  Now the only
> >> question is whether the "bigger than a breadbox" started there
> or on What's
> >> My Line.
> >>
> >> I see from wikipedia that:
> >> "The most common reference to breadboxes is the phrase "Is it bigger than
> >> a breadbox?" when trying to guess what some surprise object may be. This
> >> question was popularized by Steve Allen on the American game
> show What's My
> >> Line? and remains a popular question in the parlor game 20 Questions."
> >> Not really determinative one way or the other.
> >>
> >> Parlor game indeed!
> >>
> >> LH
> >>>
> >>> "Twenty Questions" has a Wikipedia listing.
> >>>
> >>> The following quote is from it:
> >>>
> >>> "As a television series, *Twenty Questions* debuted as a local show in
> >> New
> >>> York on WOR-TV <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WWOR-TV> Channel 9 on
> >> November
> >>> 2, 1949. Beginning on November 26, the series went nationwide on
> >>> NBC<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBC>until December 24, after which it
> >>> remained dormant until March 17, 1950
> >>> when it was picked up by
> >>> ABC<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Broadcasting_Company>until
> >>> June 29, 1951.
> >>> "Its longest and most well-known run, however, is the one on the DuMont
> >>> Television Network
> >>> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DuMont_Television_Network>from July 6,
> >>> 1951 to May 30, 1954. During this time, original host Bill
> >>> Slater <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Slater_%28broadcaster%29> was
> >>> replaced by Jay Jackson. After this run ended, ABC picked up the series
> >>> once again from July 6, 1954 to May 3, 1955. The last radio show had been
> >>> broadcast on March 27, 1954."
> >>>
> >>> On Sat, Feb 16, 2013 at 9:57 PM, Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at yale.edu
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> >>>> -----------------------
> >>>> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> >>>> Poster:       Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at YALE.EDU>
> >>>> Subject:      Re: The precise terminology of modern science
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>>
> >>>> On Feb 16, 2013, at 9:16 PM, Jocelyn Limpert wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> Actually the phrase was "BIGGER than
> >>>>> a breadbox" and it was coined by Steve Allen when he served as a
> >> panelist
> >>>>> on "What's My Line?" in the 1950's.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> I remember that also being a useful (or at least much-used) clue in
> >> Twenty
> >>>> Questions ("Animal, Vegetable, or Mineral?"), a game that did not have
> >> its
> >>>> own TV show but was frequently played during long car rides.
> >>>>
> >>>> LH
> >>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Sat, Feb 16, 2013 at 3:42 PM, Joel S. Berson <Berson at att.net>
> >> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> >>>>>> -----------------------
> >>>>>> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> >>>>>> Poster:       "Joel S. Berson" <Berson at ATT.NET>
> >>>>>> Subject:      The precise terminology of modern science
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>
> >>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> From an illustration titled "Fireball" attached to the NYTimes
> >>>>>> article on the Chelyabinsk meteor:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> "An _asteroid_ is a rock large than a boulder orbiting in the inner
> >>>>>> solar system, usually between Mars and Jupiter."
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> In the good old days, it used to be "larger than a breadbox."
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Joel
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>>>> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>>> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> >>>>
> >>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------
> >>> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> >>
> >> ------------------------------------------------------------
> >> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> >>
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>
>------------------------------------------------------------
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