A, V, or M; also "bigger vs. larger"

Sun Feb 17 16:37:21 UTC 2013

It seems to me that breadboxes vary far less in size than boulders do.

On Feb 17, 2013, at 7:35 AM, Joel S. Berson wrote:

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> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Poster:       "Joel S. Berson" <Berson at ATT.NET>
> Subject:      Re: A, V, or M; also "bigger vs. larger"
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> My recollection is that on the TV program "Twenty Questions" "animal,
> vegetable, or mineral" was a freebie -- that is, the panel was told
> which. But it was a long time ago.
>
> I used "larger than a breadbox" for parallel construction -- the
> NYTimes had used "larger than a boulder".  I assume they did not use
> "bigger" because "larger" is a more precise measure.
>
> Joel
>
> At 2/17/2013 12:15 AM, Laurence Horn wrote:
>> On Feb 16, 2013, at 11:45 PM, Jocelyn Limpert wrote:
>>
>>> My "authority" for the "breadbox" origin being from Steve Allen and not
>>> from "Twenty Questions" is the following from my long-time friend and
>>> long-time former Washington Post TV Critic Tom Shales, a most reliable
>>> source of all kinds of TV trivia:
>>>
>>> "I dont mind being quoted or mind not being but i AM certain that it's
>>> "bigger"  than a bread box & that Mr Allen wittily invented the question.
>>> Guests on what's my line often dealt in a "product" & Steve invented this
>>> clever way of estimating the product's size (the panelists' questions  had
>>> to be answerable with a yes or no).
>>>
>>> "That "animal vegetable or mineral" thing strikes a responsive chord but I
>>> cannot remember what show it was used on.
>>
>> It was the free clue at the beginning of 20 Questions the way we
>> played it.  Maybe (if I can extrapolate from
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twenty_Questions) that was a blend of
>> the original 20 Questions game and a separate "A, V, or M?" game.
>> The 20 Questions questions also had to be answered yes or no, so
>> that doesn't distinguish between the two (although it does show that
>> the "A, V, or M?" couldn't be part of the game itself, or the only
>> appropriate answer would have been "Yes"), and if anything the
>> breadbox question would be even more relevant to 20Q than What's My
>> Line, since not all of the occupations in the latter involved
>> selling or making a particular product.  But as I say I don't really
>> know who had it first.  And besides having been a fan of Steve Allen
>> I was a classmate of Arlene Francis's son, so I wouldn't want to deprecate WML.
>>
>> LH
>>
>>> Of course being used on a show
>>> doesn't mean it was invented for that show but the "breadbox" line was. A
>>> genuine moment of inspiration!"
>>>
>>> And, of course, I've since found the reference to the "Twenty
>> Questions" TV.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, Feb 16, 2013 at 11:32 PM, Laurence Horn
>> <laurence.horn at yale.edu>wrote:
>>>
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>>>> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>>>> Poster:       Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at YALE.EDU>
>>>> Subject:      Re: The precise terminology of modern science
>>>>
>>>>
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> On Feb 16, 2013, at 11:13 PM, Jocelyn Limpert wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Yes, there was a TV show, "Twenty Questions."
>>>>
>>>> Oops.  Of course there was.  What was(n't) I thinking?  Now the only
>>>> question is whether the "bigger than a breadbox" started there
>> or on What's
>>>> My Line.
>>>>
>>>> I see from wikipedia that:
>>>> "The most common reference to breadboxes is the phrase "Is it bigger than
>>>> a breadbox?" when trying to guess what some surprise object may be. This
>>>> question was popularized by Steve Allen on the American game
>> show What's My
>>>> Line? and remains a popular question in the parlor game 20 Questions."
>>>> Not really determinative one way or the other.
>>>>
>>>> Parlor game indeed!
>>>>
>>>> LH
>>>>>
>>>>> "Twenty Questions" has a Wikipedia listing.
>>>>>
>>>>> The following quote is from it:
>>>>>
>>>>> "As a television series, *Twenty Questions* debuted as a local show in
>>>> New
>>>>> York on WOR-TV <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WWOR-TV> Channel 9 on
>>>> November
>>>>> 2, 1949. Beginning on November 26, the series went nationwide on
>>>>> NBC<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBC>until December 24, after which it
>>>>> remained dormant until March 17, 1950
>>>>> when it was picked up by
>>>>> ABC<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Broadcasting_Company>until
>>>>> June 29, 1951.
>>>>> "Its longest and most well-known run, however, is the one on the DuMont
>>>>> Television Network
>>>>> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DuMont_Television_Network>from July 6,
>>>>> 1951 to May 30, 1954. During this time, original host Bill
>>>>> Slater <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Slater_%28broadcaster%29> was
>>>>> replaced by Jay Jackson. After this run ended, ABC picked up the series
>>>>> once again from July 6, 1954 to May 3, 1955. The last radio show had been
>>>>> broadcast on March 27, 1954."
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sat, Feb 16, 2013 at 9:57 PM, Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at yale.edu
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>>>>>> -----------------------
>>>>>> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>>>>>> Poster:       Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at YALE.EDU>
>>>>>> Subject:      Re: The precise terminology of modern science
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Feb 16, 2013, at 9:16 PM, Jocelyn Limpert wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Actually the phrase was "BIGGER than
>>>>>>> a breadbox" and it was coined by Steve Allen when he served as a
>>>> panelist
>>>>>>> on "What's My Line?" in the 1950's.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I remember that also being a useful (or at least much-used) clue in
>>>> Twenty
>>>>>> Questions ("Animal, Vegetable, or Mineral?"), a game that did not have
>>>> its
>>>>>> own TV show but was frequently played during long car rides.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> LH
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Sat, Feb 16, 2013 at 3:42 PM, Joel S. Berson <Berson at att.net>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>>>>>>>> -----------------------
>>>>>>>> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>>>>>>>> Poster:       "Joel S. Berson" <Berson at ATT.NET>
>>>>>>>> Subject:      The precise terminology of modern science
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> From an illustration titled "Fireball" attached to the NYTimes
>>>>>>>> article on the Chelyabinsk meteor:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "An _asteroid_ is a rock large than a boulder orbiting in the inner
>>>>>>>> solar system, usually between Mars and Jupiter."
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> In the good old days, it used to be "larger than a breadbox."
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Joel
>>>>>>>>
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