"famous, infamous"

Wed Feb 27 01:34:28 UTC 2013

Jon and Larry must not be familiar with Tom Bell, a confidence man of
the mid-18th century.  From the Boston Weekly Post-Boy, 1743 Aug. 22, 3/1:

-----
Portsmouth, New-Hampshire, August 19.
     Notice hereby is given, to the Publick to be upon their Guard,
for in all probability, the famous, or rather infamous Tom Bell is
upon the Line: A Person exactly answering his Character (had from
many Places) has this Week broke open a Chest, and carried off
considerable Moneys and Goods of value from several Persons, ... He
is very shy in telling his Name ... The Catchpole is after him; and
if he can haply lay his ample Hand up his Shoulder, his Body
obsequious to the touch, will be convey'd to our inchanted Castle,
Francis Tucker Commandant: The above Chap is very grave & serious,
has a ready invention, with good Elocution [he spent three years at
Harvard before being expelled for theft and lying]; and he has ('tis
tho't) already deceived many here.
-----

Bell's "fame" was due to his being written about in a hundred stories
in colonial newspapers from 1738 to 1755, thus probably being second
only to George Whitefield, the itinerant preacher, as the most widely
known individual in English America before the revolutionary
generation.  His "infamy" can be inferred.

-----

P.S.  For fiercely competitive antedaters, "upon the line" dates back to a1616.

Joel

At 2/26/2013 04:14 PM, Jonathan Lighter wrote:
> > But I can't remember actually seeing a conjunction of this kind before.
>
>Me neither. It's also noteworthy that "infamy" has not been diluted (any
>more than "gaiety" has been sexualized).
>
>It may be, though, that in the nonliterary world, both are now felt to be a
>little archaic..
>
>JL
>
>On Tue, Feb 26, 2013 at 3:46 PM, Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at yale.edu>wrote:
>
> > ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> > -----------------------
> > Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> > Poster:       Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at YALE.EDU>
> > Subject:      Re: infamous = 'talked-about; popular'
> >
> >
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > On Feb 22, 2013, at 6:58 AM, Jonathan Lighter wrote:
> >
> > > Another possible gloss, in the golf-match context, might be "amusingly
> > > embarrassing."
> > >
> > > BTW, does anyone *actually* use "infamous" in the officially proscribed
> > > sense of "famous"?  Or is this here (there, I said it) really the sort of
> > > usage the proscribers have in mind?
> > >
> > > JL
> >
> > and then again, we can have two for the price of one:
> >
> >
> >
> http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/26/sports/ncaabasketball/a-fresh-five-push-michigan-into-the-ncaa-title-picture.html
> >
> > About the five freshman currently playing (but not all starting, or
> > starring) who bring "flair, a little extra cool" to the U. of Michigan's
> > men's basketball team:
> >
> > ==============
> > They have come to be called the Fresh Five, a nod to the famous and
> > infamous Fab Five, the college basketball stars turned cultural phenomenon
> > of the early 1990s. The current freshmen joke about it in private. But when
> > they arrived, they were not as heralded. They were not as brash. There were
> > no black shoes, no black socks.
> > ==============
> >
> > The earlier U. of M. Fab Five (whose name is of course a nod to the
> > original Fab Four across the pond) were indeed both famous and (for various
> > forms of misbehavior, on and off the court) infamous.  But I can't remember
> > actually seeing a conjunction of this kind before.
> >
> > LH
> >
> >
> > >
> > > On Thu, Feb 21, 2013 at 2:01 PM, Tom Zurinskas <truespel at hotmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > >> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> > >> -----------------------
> > >> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> > >> Poster:       Tom Zurinskas <truespel at HOTMAIL.COM>
> > >> Subject:      Re: infamous = 'talked-about; popular'
> > >>
> > >>
> >
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >>
> > >> It appears to me that CNN has a negative bias against our president.
> >  The
> > >> word "infamous" must refer to those who say it's not proper that he
> > play on
> > >> a "private" golf course.  What?  And then last night CNN after showing
> > Rand
> > >> Paul blaming the Prez for the sequester asks the viewers "Who do you
> > think
> > >> is the blame.?"  Talk about influencing a poll.  They never mentioned
> > >> Repugnantcan brinkmanship.
> > >>
> > >> On a second issue, I'd like to count how many times a sportscaster says
> > >> "We talked about.." during a game.  It's everywhere.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Tom Zurinskas, Conn 20 yrs, Tenn 3, NJ 33, now Fl 9.
> > >> See how English spelling links to sounds at http://justpaste.it/ayk
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>>
> > >>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> > >> -----------------------
> > >>> Sender: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> > >>> Poster: Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM>
> > >>> Subject: Re: infamous = 'talked-about; popular'
> > >>>
> > >>
> >
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >>>
> > >>> Today CNN is saying "that highly talked-about golf match between
> > >> President
> > >>> Obama and Tiger Woods."
> > >>>
> > >>> Note my suggested def. at the top of the thread.
> > >>>
> > >>> (And the surprising - oops! I mean "eerie" - "Tiger Woods"
> > >> connection....)
> > >>>
> > >>> JL
> > >>>
> > >>> On Thu, Feb 21, 2013 at 12:25 AM, W Brewer <brewerwa at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> > >>>> -----------------------
> > >>>> Sender: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> > >>>> Poster: W Brewer <brewerwa at GMAIL.COM>
> > >>>> Subject: Re: infamous = 'talked-about; popular'
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>
> >
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >>>>
> > >>>> <<<=85and it's one small step from ringleader to mastermind.>>>
> > >>>> Wagnerian tunes lead to ... a board game???
> > >>>>
> > >>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
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> > >>>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> --
> > >>> "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the
> > >> truth."
> > >>>
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> > >>
> > >>
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> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the
> > truth."
> > >
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> > > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> >
>
>
>
>--
>"If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the truth."
>
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