"famous, infamous"

Wed Feb 27 02:04:39 UTC 2013

Ah, but "famous, or rather infamous Tom Bell" is a correction, quite distinct from the "famous and infamous Fab Five", which manages to be (or to have been) both at once, or alternately.

LH

On Feb 26, 2013, at 8:34 PM, Joel S. Berson wrote:

> Jon and Larry must not be familiar with Tom Bell, a confidence man of
> the mid-18th century.  From the Boston Weekly Post-Boy, 1743 Aug. 22, 3/1:
>
> -----
> Portsmouth, New-Hampshire, August 19.
>    Notice hereby is given, to the Publick to be upon their Guard,
> for in all probability, the famous, or rather infamous Tom Bell is
> upon the Line: A Person exactly answering his Character (had from
> many Places) has this Week broke open a Chest, and carried off
> considerable Moneys and Goods of value from several Persons, ... He
> is very shy in telling his Name ... The Catchpole is after him; and
> if he can haply lay his ample Hand up his Shoulder, his Body
> obsequious to the touch, will be convey'd to our inchanted Castle,
> Francis Tucker Commandant: The above Chap is very grave & serious,
> has a ready invention, with good Elocution [he spent three years at
> Harvard before being expelled for theft and lying]; and he has ('tis
> tho't) already deceived many here.
> -----
>
> Bell's "fame" was due to his being written about in a hundred stories
> in colonial newspapers from 1738 to 1755, thus probably being second
> only to George Whitefield, the itinerant preacher, as the most widely
> known individual in English America before the revolutionary
> generation.  His "infamy" can be inferred.
>
> -----
>
> P.S.  For fiercely competitive antedaters, "upon the line" dates back to a1616.
>
> Joel
>
> At 2/26/2013 04:14 PM, Jonathan Lighter wrote:
>> > But I can't remember actually seeing a conjunction of this kind before.
>>
>> Me neither. It's also noteworthy that "infamy" has not been diluted (any
>> more than "gaiety" has been sexualized).
>>
>> It may be, though, that in the nonliterary world, both are now felt to be a
>> little archaic..
>>
>> JL
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 26, 2013 at 3:46 PM, Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at yale.edu>wrote:
>>
>> > ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>> > -----------------------
>> > Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>> > Poster:       Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at YALE.EDU>
>> > Subject:      Re: infamous = 'talked-about; popular'
>> >
>> >
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >
>> > On Feb 22, 2013, at 6:58 AM, Jonathan Lighter wrote:
>> >
>> > > Another possible gloss, in the golf-match context, might be "amusingly
>> > > embarrassing."
>> > >
>> > > BTW, does anyone *actually* use "infamous" in the officially proscribed
>> > > sense of "famous"?  Or is this here (there, I said it) really the sort of
>> > > usage the proscribers have in mind?
>> > >
>> > > JL
>> >
>> > and then again, we can have two for the price of one:
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/26/sports/ncaabasketball/a-fresh-five-push-michigan-into-the-ncaa-title-picture.html
>> >
>> > About the five freshman currently playing (but not all starting, or
>> > starring) who bring "flair, a little extra cool" to the U. of Michigan's
>> > men's basketball team:
>> >
>> > ==============
>> > They have come to be called the Fresh Five, a nod to the famous and
>> > infamous Fab Five, the college basketball stars turned cultural phenomenon
>> > of the early 1990s. The current freshmen joke about it in private. But when
>> > they arrived, they were not as heralded. They were not as brash. There were
>> > no black shoes, no black socks.
>> > ==============
>> >
>> > The earlier U. of M. Fab Five (whose name is of course a nod to the
>> > original Fab Four across the pond) were indeed both famous and (for various
>> > forms of misbehavior, on and off the court) infamous.  But I can't remember
>> > actually seeing a conjunction of this kind before.
>> >
>> > LH
>> >
>> >
>> > >
>> > > On Thu, Feb 21, 2013 at 2:01 PM, Tom Zurinskas <truespel at hotmail.com>
>> > wrote:
>> > >
>> > >> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>> > >> -----------------------
>> > >> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>> > >> Poster:       Tom Zurinskas <truespel at HOTMAIL.COM>
>> > >> Subject:      Re: infamous = 'talked-about; popular'
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> >
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> > >>
>> > >> It appears to me that CNN has a negative bias against our president.
>> >  The
>> > >> word "infamous" must refer to those who say it's not proper that he
>> > play on
>> > >> a "private" golf course.  What?  And then last night CNN after showing
>> > Rand
>> > >> Paul blaming the Prez for the sequester asks the viewers "Who do you
>> > think
>> > >> is the blame.?"  Talk about influencing a poll.  They never mentioned
>> > >> Repugnantcan brinkmanship.
>> > >>
>> > >> On a second issue, I'd like to count how many times a sportscaster says
>> > >> "We talked about.." during a game.  It's everywhere.
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> Tom Zurinskas, Conn 20 yrs, Tenn 3, NJ 33, now Fl 9.
>> > >> See how English spelling links to sounds at http://justpaste.it/ayk
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>>
>> > >>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>> > >> -----------------------
>> > >>> Sender: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>> > >>> Poster: Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM>
>> > >>> Subject: Re: infamous = 'talked-about; popular'
>> > >>>
>> > >>
>> >
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> > >>>
>> > >>> Today CNN is saying "that highly talked-about golf match between
>> > >> President
>> > >>> Obama and Tiger Woods."
>> > >>>
>> > >>> Note my suggested def. at the top of the thread.
>> > >>>
>> > >>> (And the surprising - oops! I mean "eerie" - "Tiger Woods"
>> > >> connection....)
>> > >>>
>> > >>> JL
>> > >>>
>> > >>> On Thu, Feb 21, 2013 at 12:25 AM, W Brewer <brewerwa at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > >>>
>> > >>>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>> > >>>> -----------------------
>> > >>>> Sender: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>> > >>>> Poster: W Brewer <brewerwa at GMAIL.COM>
>> > >>>> Subject: Re: infamous = 'talked-about; popular'
>> > >>>>
>> > >>>>
>> > >>
>> >
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> > >>>>
>> > >>>> <<<=85and it's one small step from ringleader to mastermind.>>>
>> > >>>> Wagnerian tunes lead to ... a board game???
>> > >>>>
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>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > --
>> > > "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the
>> > truth."
>> > >
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>>
>>
>> --
>> "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the truth."
>>
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>
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