Q: Meaning of "cut" below

[Joel S. Berson]

At 7/2/2013 07:33 AM, George Thompson wrote [off-list]:

>"their Decrees will signify little, except they have a civil
>Magistrate, that will make them cutt"
>
>If we read "make them cutt" as "give the decrees teeth" or something
>like, then the image could arise from the common meanings of "cut".

Ah yes.  I was floundering around with swords for cutting/enforcing,
but "give something teeth" fits well, and that expression is common still.


>Interesting that this sort of expression isn't recorded elsewhere.

I have not tried to search EEBO or ECCO.

Off to Jesse in the next mail.

Thanks,
Joel


>GAT
>
>
>
>On Mon, Jul 1, 2013 at 9:11 PM, Joel S. Berson
><<mailto:Berson at att.net>Berson at att.net> wrote:
>Thanks, Garson.  I was not thoughtful enough to try this common
>alternate spelling (or too reliant on Silverman's faithfulness to
>Mather's original spelling!).
>
>Unfortunately, the Diary entry does not provide me any more insight
>into the meaning of "cutt" than does Silverman's book, which does a
>good job of explaining Mather's disagreement with Stoddard.
>
>So I'm still looking for help in understanding the meaning of "cutt"
>here (or more accurately, which sense from the OED to apply).  The
>notion is that since the government (the "civil Magistrate[s]") of
>Massachusetts by law had no power over church governance, any
>"Decrees" of provincial synods (a Presbyterian notion of church
>governance) could have no power of enforcement in Massachusetts, and
>would likely be ignored by the jealously self-governed Congregational
>churches.  Thus "their Decrees will signify little, except they have
>a civil Magistrate, that will make them cutt" is something like
>"their Decrees will have little effect unless there is a civil
>government (civil laws) that can enforce them."  What sense of "cut,
>v." (or, perhaps, "cut, adj.") is this?
>
>Joel
>
>
>At 7/1/2013 12:57 PM, ADSGarson O'Toole wrote:
>Joel: Below is a link into a 1911 edition of Cotton Mather's diaries
>to provide more context. The word "cutt" was used.
>
>Title: Diary of Cotton Mather, 1681-1724: 1681-1708
>Author: Cotton Mather
>
><http://books.google.com/books?id=6uwSAAAAYAAJ&q=%22make+them+cutt%22#v=snippet&>http://books.google.com/books?id=6uwSAAAAYAAJ&q=%22make+them+cutt%22#v=snippet&
>
>[Begin excerpt]
>But they know very well, that their Decrees will signify little,
>except they have a civil Magistrate, that will make them cutt.
>[End excerpt]
>
>Garson
>
>On Mon, Jul 1, 2013 at 12:35 PM, Joel S. Berson
><<mailto:Berson at att.net>Berson at att.net> wrote:
> > ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>-----------------------
> > Sender:       American Dialect Society
> <<mailto:ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> > Poster:       "Joel S. Berson" <<mailto:Berson at ATT.NET>Berson at ATT.NET>
> > Subject:      Q:  Meaning of "cut" below
> >
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > What is the meaning of "cut" in the following?  (Which OED sense?)
> >
> > "... when Stoddard visited Boston [circa 1700-1702] to assert his
> > views before an assembly of ministers, he [Cotton Mather] stood up
> > and spoke at length against [Stoddard's views]. ...In creating
> > national synods [which Mather saw as too much like Presbyterianism]
> > Stoddard would divest individual [Congregational] churches of their
> > power of self-reform, and give over their governance to synods whose
> > decrees would be impotent in New England, lacking 'a civil
> > Magistrate, that will make them cut'."
> >
> > This is from Kenneth Silverman, "The Life and Times of Cotton
> > Mather", p. 151.  The interior quotation containing "cut" is
> > presumably spoken by Mather.  Unfortunately Silverman does not give a
> > source, and the only hit I find in GBooks is the passage from Silverman.
> >
> > Joel
> >
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>--
>George A. Thompson
>Author of A Documentary History of "The African Theatre",
>Northwestern Univ. Pr., 1998, but nothing much since then.

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