_Canvass_ > "examine, pore over, search"
Dan Goncharoff
thegonch at GMAIL.COM
Fri Apr 18 19:11:04 UTC 2014
I would not describe a search of garages for a specific car or license
plate as a search for information or data.
DanG
On Fri, Apr 18, 2014 at 3:01 PM, Joel S. Berson <Berson at att.net> wrote:
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> Sender: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Poster: "Joel S. Berson" <Berson at ATT.NET>
> Subject: Re: _Canvass_ > "examine, pore over, search"
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Dan's is an example of what I would admit (that is, possibly say and
> not proscribe) under "canvass". It is searching for information,
> data, similarly to interviewing.
>
> Regarding something Jon wrote earlier, like him I would not say
> "Francisco de Ulloa canvassed the Sea of Cortes", but rather
> "explored". Unless perhaps the context was that he was looking for
> information about, evidence of something, like El Dorado or
> Atlantis. "Canvassed" to me has a connotation of "asking" more than
> "doing", so I extend "canvass" only when the "doing" is looking for
> information. But even there, I would probably prefer "searched".
>
> Similarly, for MH370 I would prefer "searching" the South Indian
> Ocean to "canvassing", and definitely rule out "exploring".
>
> Joel
>
> At 4/18/2014 02:14 PM, Dan Goncharoff wrote:
>
> >I am still convinced that there has been more recent use of the word
> >'canvass' (or 'canvas') to mean a search, not just interviews.
> >
> >Here is an example from 1941:
> >
> >Military Police
> >United States. War Dept
> >War Department, 1941 - Military police - 160 pages
> >
> http://books.google.com/books?id=Ms8sAAAAIAAJ&pg=PA116&dq=canvass+police&hl=en&sa=X&ei=oWlRU8nqGfPjsASNsYK4BA&ved=0CF0Q6AEwBA
> >
> >"If the make of the vehicle is known, a check on all such vehicles in the
> >area may lead to locating the one wanted. An immediate canvas of garages
> in
> >the area is another worth-while follow-up check."
> >
> >DanG
> >
> >
> >On Fri, Apr 18, 2014 at 8:15 AM, Jonathan Lighter
> ><wuxxmupp2000 at gmail.com>wrote:
> >
> > > ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> > > -----------------------
> > > Sender: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> > > Poster: Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM>
> > > Subject: Re: _Canvass_ > "examine, pore over, search"
> > >
> > >
> >
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >
> > > It hasn't been hurt by the fact that for at least several centuries, no
> > > connection between the noun "canvass" and *any* of the meanings in
> question
> > > has been obvious.
> > >
> > > So the Rohrschach principle of semantic change kicks in: "I don't know
> what
> > > the hell it means exactly, so why not this?!"
> > >
> > > JL
> > >
> > >
> > > On Thu, Apr 17, 2014 at 8:15 PM, Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at yale.edu
> > > >wrot=
> > > e:
> > >
> > > > ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> > > > -----------------------
> > > > Sender: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> > > > Poster: Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at YALE.EDU>
> > > > Subject: Re: _Canvass_ > "examine, pore over, search"
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------=
> > > ------
> > > >
> > > > The really fun part of the OED entry for _canvass_ (which inspired
> me to
> > > > use it in a class exercise to demonstrate semantic change) is the
> > > history=
> > > ,
> > > > from canvas (the cloth) to the use of canvas sheets for fun and
> torture
> > > > back in the early 16th c.:
> > > >
> > > > 1. To toss in a canvas sheet, etc., as a sport or punishment; to
> blanket.
> > > > Obs.
> > > > =EF=BF=BDTo knock about, shake and shatter thoroughly; to buffet; to
> > > beat=
> > > , batter,
> > > > drub.
> > > >
> > > > By the late 16th c. this began to allow for metaphorical readings,
> but
> > > th=
> > > e
> > > > route from tossing someone in a canvas sheet or thrashing them to
> > > surveyi=
> > > ng
> > > > a region to soliciting votes is pretty interesting. Warning:
> tracking
> > > th=
> > > e
> > > > history may provide an unfortunate reminder of the 2000 presidential
> > > > election.
> > > >
> > > > LH
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Apr 17, 2014, at 7:41 PM, Joel S. Berson wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > At 4/17/2014 03:37 PM, Jonathan Lighter wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >> OED does a very poor job on police "canvassing the neighborhood."
> In
> > > > fact,
> > > > >> it's not there at all, unless you're happy with 7b, "To sue or
> solicit
> > > > >> (persons, a district) for votes, subscriptions, custom, orders,
> etc."
> > > > >>
> > > > >> See, "etc." could include "information." Works for me. Not.
> > > > >
> > > > > It works for me with "information", but not with the OEDs verbs
> (sue,
> > > > > solicit). My notion of (the sense in question here of) "canvass"
> is
> > > > > "to search, inquire, for information". Similar to Jon's Subject
> line
> > > > > (but more with the sense of "seeking" than "examining"), and to
> Dan's
> > > > > comment further below. And different from the 4.b Jon cites next;
> > > > > "investigate" is OK; "physically" to restrictive: canvassed
> > > > > information can come from speech also.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >> As for the defined sense, "To investigate or examine physically"
> (4b),
> > > > it
> > > > >> is clearly marked "Obs.," with a single citation from 1652. Nada
> > > since=
> > > .
> > > > >> Odds that Wilson's cited journalist learned this usage in an
> unbroken
> > > > and
> > > > >> unrecorded line from the mid-17th century: zero.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Moreover, the new example is closer in meaning to "search (an
> area)
> > > > >> carefully and methodically" than it is to "investigate or examine
> > > > >> physically," which is what the Spanish explorer Francisco de
> Ulloa was
> > > > >> doing, no more and no less, in Peter Heylen's 1652
> _Cosmographie_ as
> > > =
> > > he
> > > > >> *explored* what is now called the Sea of Cortez:
> > > > >
> > > > > "Search for information" again.
> > > > >
> > > > > Joel
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >> "The business having slept a while, was in the year 1539 awakened
> by
> > > > >> *Francisco
> > > > >> de Vlloa,* one that had accompanied *Cortez* the time before: who
> did
> > > > not
> > > > >> only search to the bottom of the *Gulf,* but having thorowly
> canvassed
> > > > all
> > > > >> the Eastern shores, he turned his course, and made as fortunate a
> > > > Discovery
> > > > >> also of the VVestern coasts."
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Heylen used "canvass" rather often, usually in the sense of "to
> > > > discuss."
> > > > >>
> > > > >> To "investigate or explore (physically)" is a plausible early
> meaning
> > > =
> > > of
> > > > >> "to discuss," though the OED (which see) does not say so.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> JL
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >> On Wed, Apr 16, 2014 at 5:52 PM, Dan Goncharoff <
> thegonch at gmail.com>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >>
> > > > >> > ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> > > > >> > -----------------------
> > > > >> > Sender: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> > > > >> > Poster: Dan Goncharoff <thegonch at GMAIL.COM>
> > > > >> > Subject: Re: _Canvass_ > "examine, pore over, search"
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> >
> > > > >>
> > > >
> > >
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------=
> > > ------
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > There is an older meaning of canvass that means to search or
> > > > scrutinize.
> > > > >> > Back in the 19th century, it was the first meaning. Check the
> 1828
> > > > >> > Webster's.
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > DanG
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > On Tue, Apr 15, 2014 at 8:57 PM, Wilson Gray <hwgray at gmail.com>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > > ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> > > > >> > > -----------------------
> > > > >> > > Sender: American Dialect Society <
> ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> > > > >> > > Poster: Wilson Gray <hwgray at GMAIL.COM>
> > > > >> > > Subject: Re: _Canvass_ > "examine, pore over, search"
> > > > >> > >
> > > > >> > >
> > > > >> >
> > > > >>
> > > >
> > >
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------=
> > > ------
> > > > >> > >
> > > > >> > > On Tue, Apr 15, 2014 at 8:12 PM, Jonathan Lighter <
> > > > >> > wuxxmupp2000 at gmail.com
> > > > >> > > >wrote:
> > > > >> > >
> > > > >> > > > "canvass the area"
> > > > >> > >
> > > > >> > >
> > > > >> > > That's a clip of "canvass, i.e. "interview," the [residents
> of]
> > > th=
> > > e
> > > > area
> > > > >> > > [to see what, if anything, they know about the crime]." Since
> > > > deserts are
> > > > >> > > called "deserts" because they're deserted, I can't wrap my
> mind
> > > > around
> > > > >> > the
> > > > >> > > concept of "canvassing" a desert to see what, if anything, it
> > > know=
> > > s
> > > > about
> > > > >> > > the location of the body of a murder victim or for anything
> else
> > > > that it
> > > > >> > > may know. Others may not have this problem.
> > > > >> > >
> > > > >> > > Youneverknow.
> > > > >> > >
> > > > >> > > --
> > > > >> > > -Wilson
> > > > >> > > -----
> > > > >> > > All say, "How hard it is that we have to die!"---a strange
> > > > complaint to
> > > > >> > > come from the mouths of people who have had to live.
> > > > >> > > -Mark Twain
> > > > >> > >
> > > > >> > > ------------------------------------------------------------
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> > > > >> > >
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > ------------------------------------------------------------
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> > > > >> >
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >> --
> > > > >> "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle
> the
> > > > truth."
> > > > >>
> > > > >> ------------------------------------------------------------
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> > > > >
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> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --=20
> > > "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the
> truth."
> > >
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> > >
> >
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> >The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
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