_Canvass_ > "examine, pore over, search"
Jonathan Lighter
wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM
Fri Apr 18 19:52:30 UTC 2014
Joel, the context makes it pretty clear that he Ulloa was "exploring" the
geography rather than inquiring of people in search of information (though
he may have done some of that too).
And in any case, he was not searching the area for some specific, material
thing like a corpse.
There are at least four practical lexicographical questions involved,
clearly of little interest to the general reader. Semantically, does the
2014 example carry essentially the same meaning as that of 1652? Second (if
it does), is the current example some kind of survival or essentially an
accident? Third, is the 2014 sense different and common enough to include
in the OED? Fourth, if so, where to put it: under a new numbered definition
or as a nuance of 4b? Or perhaps as "4f"?
Fortunately I'm not going to mess with these questions further, except to
say that I'd replace def. 4b with the more precise phrase "To explore (an
area)." *If* OED also has cites that speak of a physician "canvassing" a
patient for some sign of disease, I'd specify the typical sort of object:
"To examine (a person) physically." (The inclusion of "'investigate" might
be gratuitous in any case.) If both nuances applied, I'd separate them by a
semicolon.
I'd define the 2014 usage separately as "to search (a place) for something
specific, such as physical evidence of a crime." The gap between 1652 and
2014 is just too long to assume anything more than an accidental
resemblance.
JL
On Fri, Apr 18, 2014 at 3:11 PM, Dan Goncharoff <thegonch at gmail.com> wrote:
> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
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> Sender: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Poster: Dan Goncharoff <thegonch at GMAIL.COM>
> Subject: Re: _Canvass_ > "examine, pore over, search"
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> I would not describe a search of garages for a specific car or license
> plate as a search for information or data.
>
> DanG
>
>
> On Fri, Apr 18, 2014 at 3:01 PM, Joel S. Berson <Berson at att.net> wrote:
>
> > ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> > -----------------------
> > Sender: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> > Poster: "Joel S. Berson" <Berson at ATT.NET>
> > Subject: Re: _Canvass_ > "examine, pore over, search"
> >
> >
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Dan's is an example of what I would admit (that is, possibly say and
> > not proscribe) under "canvass". It is searching for information,
> > data, similarly to interviewing.
> >
> > Regarding something Jon wrote earlier, like him I would not say
> > "Francisco de Ulloa canvassed the Sea of Cortes", but rather
> > "explored". Unless perhaps the context was that he was looking for
> > information about, evidence of something, like El Dorado or
> > Atlantis. "Canvassed" to me has a connotation of "asking" more than
> > "doing", so I extend "canvass" only when the "doing" is looking for
> > information. But even there, I would probably prefer "searched".
> >
> > Similarly, for MH370 I would prefer "searching" the South Indian
> > Ocean to "canvassing", and definitely rule out "exploring".
> >
> > Joel
> >
> > At 4/18/2014 02:14 PM, Dan Goncharoff wrote:
> >
> > >I am still convinced that there has been more recent use of the word
> > >'canvass' (or 'canvas') to mean a search, not just interviews.
> > >
> > >Here is an example from 1941:
> > >
> > >Military Police
> > >United States. War Dept
> > >War Department, 1941 - Military police - 160 pages
> > >
> >
> http://books.google.com/books?id=Ms8sAAAAIAAJ&pg=PA116&dq=canvass+police&hl=en&sa=X&ei=oWlRU8nqGfPjsASNsYK4BA&ved=0CF0Q6AEwBA
> > >
> > >"If the make of the vehicle is known, a check on all such vehicles in
> the
> > >area may lead to locating the one wanted. An immediate canvas of garages
> > in
> > >the area is another worth-while follow-up check."
> > >
> > >DanG
> > >
> > >
> > >On Fri, Apr 18, 2014 at 8:15 AM, Jonathan Lighter
> > ><wuxxmupp2000 at gmail.com>wrote:
> > >
> > > > ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> > > > -----------------------
> > > > Sender: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> > > > Poster: Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM>
> > > > Subject: Re: _Canvass_ > "examine, pore over, search"
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > >
> > > > It hasn't been hurt by the fact that for at least several centuries,
> no
> > > > connection between the noun "canvass" and *any* of the meanings in
> > question
> > > > has been obvious.
> > > >
> > > > So the Rohrschach principle of semantic change kicks in: "I don't
> know
> > what
> > > > the hell it means exactly, so why not this?!"
> > > >
> > > > JL
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Thu, Apr 17, 2014 at 8:15 PM, Laurence Horn <
> laurence.horn at yale.edu
> > > > >wrot=
> > > > e:
> > > >
> > > > > ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> > > > > -----------------------
> > > > > Sender: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> > > > > Poster: Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at YALE.EDU>
> > > > > Subject: Re: _Canvass_ > "examine, pore over, search"
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> >
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------=
> > > > ------
> > > > >
> > > > > The really fun part of the OED entry for _canvass_ (which inspired
> > me to
> > > > > use it in a class exercise to demonstrate semantic change) is the
> > > > history=
> > > > ,
> > > > > from canvas (the cloth) to the use of canvas sheets for fun and
> > torture
> > > > > back in the early 16th c.:
> > > > >
> > > > > 1. To toss in a canvas sheet, etc., as a sport or punishment; to
> > blanket.
> > > > > Obs.
> > > > > =EF=BF=BDTo knock about, shake and shatter thoroughly; to buffet;
> to
> > > > beat=
> > > > , batter,
> > > > > drub.
> > > > >
> > > > > By the late 16th c. this began to allow for metaphorical readings,
> > but
> > > > th=
> > > > e
> > > > > route from tossing someone in a canvas sheet or thrashing them to
> > > > surveyi=
> > > > ng
> > > > > a region to soliciting votes is pretty interesting. Warning:
> > tracking
> > > > th=
> > > > e
> > > > > history may provide an unfortunate reminder of the 2000
> presidential
> > > > > election.
> > > > >
> > > > > LH
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On Apr 17, 2014, at 7:41 PM, Joel S. Berson wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > At 4/17/2014 03:37 PM, Jonathan Lighter wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > >> OED does a very poor job on police "canvassing the
> neighborhood."
> > In
> > > > > fact,
> > > > > >> it's not there at all, unless you're happy with 7b, "To sue or
> > solicit
> > > > > >> (persons, a district) for votes, subscriptions, custom, orders,
> > etc."
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> See, "etc." could include "information." Works for me. Not.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > It works for me with "information", but not with the OEDs verbs
> > (sue,
> > > > > > solicit). My notion of (the sense in question here of) "canvass"
> > is
> > > > > > "to search, inquire, for information". Similar to Jon's Subject
> > line
> > > > > > (but more with the sense of "seeking" than "examining"), and to
> > Dan's
> > > > > > comment further below. And different from the 4.b Jon cites
> next;
> > > > > > "investigate" is OK; "physically" to restrictive: canvassed
> > > > > > information can come from speech also.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >> As for the defined sense, "To investigate or examine physically"
> > (4b),
> > > > > it
> > > > > >> is clearly marked "Obs.," with a single citation from 1652. Nada
> > > > since=
> > > > .
> > > > > >> Odds that Wilson's cited journalist learned this usage in an
> > unbroken
> > > > > and
> > > > > >> unrecorded line from the mid-17th century: zero.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Moreover, the new example is closer in meaning to "search (an
> > area)
> > > > > >> carefully and methodically" than it is to "investigate or
> examine
> > > > > >> physically," which is what the Spanish explorer Francisco de
> > Ulloa was
> > > > > >> doing, no more and no less, in Peter Heylen's 1652
> > _Cosmographie_ as
> > > > =
> > > > he
> > > > > >> *explored* what is now called the Sea of Cortez:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > "Search for information" again.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Joel
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >> "The business having slept a while, was in the year 1539
> awakened
> > by
> > > > > >> *Francisco
> > > > > >> de Vlloa,* one that had accompanied *Cortez* the time before:
> who
> > did
> > > > > not
> > > > > >> only search to the bottom of the *Gulf,* but having thorowly
> > canvassed
> > > > > all
> > > > > >> the Eastern shores, he turned his course, and made as fortunate
> a
> > > > > Discovery
> > > > > >> also of the VVestern coasts."
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Heylen used "canvass" rather often, usually in the sense of "to
> > > > > discuss."
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> To "investigate or explore (physically)" is a plausible early
> > meaning
> > > > =
> > > > of
> > > > > >> "to discuss," though the OED (which see) does not say so.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> JL
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> On Wed, Apr 16, 2014 at 5:52 PM, Dan Goncharoff <
> > thegonch at gmail.com>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> > ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> > > > > >> > -----------------------
> > > > > >> > Sender: American Dialect Society <
> ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> > > > > >> > Poster: Dan Goncharoff <thegonch at GMAIL.COM>
> > > > > >> > Subject: Re: _Canvass_ > "examine, pore over, search"
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >>
> > > > >
> > > >
> >
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------=
> > > > ------
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> > There is an older meaning of canvass that means to search or
> > > > > scrutinize.
> > > > > >> > Back in the 19th century, it was the first meaning. Check the
> > 1828
> > > > > >> > Webster's.
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> > DanG
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> > On Tue, Apr 15, 2014 at 8:57 PM, Wilson Gray <
> hwgray at gmail.com>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> > > ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> > > > > >> > > -----------------------
> > > > > >> > > Sender: American Dialect Society <
> > ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> > > > > >> > > Poster: Wilson Gray <hwgray at GMAIL.COM>
> > > > > >> > > Subject: Re: _Canvass_ > "examine, pore over, search"
> > > > > >> > >
> > > > > >> > >
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >>
> > > > >
> > > >
> >
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------=
> > > > ------
> > > > > >> > >
> > > > > >> > > On Tue, Apr 15, 2014 at 8:12 PM, Jonathan Lighter <
> > > > > >> > wuxxmupp2000 at gmail.com
> > > > > >> > > >wrote:
> > > > > >> > >
> > > > > >> > > > "canvass the area"
> > > > > >> > >
> > > > > >> > >
> > > > > >> > > That's a clip of "canvass, i.e. "interview," the [residents
> > of]
> > > > th=
> > > > e
> > > > > area
> > > > > >> > > [to see what, if anything, they know about the crime]."
> Since
> > > > > deserts are
> > > > > >> > > called "deserts" because they're deserted, I can't wrap my
> > mind
> > > > > around
> > > > > >> > the
> > > > > >> > > concept of "canvassing" a desert to see what, if anything,
> it
> > > > know=
> > > > s
> > > > > about
> > > > > >> > > the location of the body of a murder victim or for anything
> > else
> > > > > that it
> > > > > >> > > may know. Others may not have this problem.
> > > > > >> > >
> > > > > >> > > Youneverknow.
> > > > > >> > >
> > > > > >> > > --
> > > > > >> > > -Wilson
> > > > > >> > > -----
> > > > > >> > > All say, "How hard it is that we have to die!"---a strange
> > > > > complaint to
> > > > > >> > > come from the mouths of people who have had to live.
> > > > > >> > > -Mark Twain
> > > > > >> > >
> > > > > >> > > ------------------------------------------------------------
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> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> --
> > > > > >> "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle
> > the
> > > > > truth."
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> ------------------------------------------------------------
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> > > >
> > > > --=20
> > > > "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the
> > truth."
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