"to roger" -- the Rogerenes and the origin of the verb

[Jonathan Lighter]

Also, the Rogerenes were proud of *not* doing any of that stuff.

If you can believe them.

JL


On Sun, Apr 27, 2014 at 3:11 PM, Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at gmail.com>wrote:

> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
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> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Poster:       Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM>
> Subject:      Re: "to roger" -- the Rogerenes and the origin of the verb
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> IIRC, "Roger" was once a common name for a bull (like "Dobbin" for a
> horse).
>
> Coinkydink?
>
> JL
>
>
>
> On Sun, Apr 27, 2014 at 3:04 PM, Joel S. Berson <Berson at att.net> wrote:
>
> > ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> > -----------------------
> > Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> > Poster:       "Joel S. Berson" <Berson at ATT.NET>
> > Subject:      Re: "to roger" -- the Rogerenes and the origin of the verb
> >
> >
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > At 4/27/2014 02:17 PM, Jonathan Lighter wrote:
> >
> > >Older than the Rogerenes.
> > >
> > >Which makes them even more scandalous.
> >
> > We can wonder whither we wander, whether "to roger" be older than the
> > Rogerenes, or not to be.  John Rogers's dates are 1648--1721, earlier
> > than the OED's 1699 first instance of "roger, v.1."  However, the
> > related "roger, n.2, 4" ("The penis") dates from [1644].
> >
> > And we can wonder about the area of origin.  While the 1699 verb is
> > from the Univ. of Oxf., the earlier 1644 noun is from the Circuit
> > Court of Northampton, Virginia.  Perhaps not far from William Byrd II
> > (a 1711 quotation for the verb), whose dates are 1674--1744.  Byrd
> > was randy in England from 1681 (well, maybe not from age 7) to 1705
> > (Wikipedia).  Perhaps he brought "to roger" from Northampton to Oxford.
> >
> > Joel
> >
> >
> > >JL
> > >
> > >
> > >On Sun, Apr 27, 2014 at 1:52 PM, David A. Daniel <dad at pokerwiz.com>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > > ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> > > > -----------------------
> > > > Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> > > > Poster:       "David A. Daniel" <dad at POKERWIZ.COM>
> > > > Subject:      Re: Fun and games among the Quakers: "Rogerene",
> > > >               1768; interdates OED (2010) 1754--1784
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > >
> > > > So, hey! Is this were "to roger" comes from?
> > > > DAD
> > > >
> > > > Subject: Fun and games among the Quakers: "Rogerene", 1768;
> interdates
> > OED
> > > > (2010) 1754--1784
> > > >
> > > > Poster:       "Joel S. Berson" <Berson at ATT.NET>
> > > > Subject:      Fun and games among the Quakers: "Rogerene", 1768;
> > interdates
> > > > OED
> > > >               (2010) 1754--1784
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > ---
> > > >
> > > > You must have read of the vast variety of religions and different
> > > > persuasions in practice in this country. I heard the other day of a
> > > > new sect, who call themselves Rogerines, [sic] from their principal,
> > > > whose name is Roger. They run about stark naked, men and women, and
> > > > profess to live in the state of primitive innocence. In this country
> > > > they go into churches and other religious meetings, where they dance
> > > > about in an extraordinary manner, Billy to Betty, and cry out
> > > > constantly, "Who can do as we do, and yet be pure and undefiled?"
> > > > This is a fact; but pray do not read it to any women.
> > > >
> > > > 1768 Alexander Mackraby, Letter to Sir Philip Francis, 20 January,
> > > > Bristol [Pennsylvania].  In Pennsylvania Magazine of History and
> > > > Biography 11 (1887), 278.  GBooks.
> > > >
> > > > The article is titled "Philadelphia Society [sic!] before the
> > > > Revolution".  Bristol, Penn., is just across the Delaware River from
> > > > New Jersey, about 22 miles from Philadelphia.  Mackraby wrote "I am
> > > > at an inn, where I put up on my return from a visit to Mr. Franklyn,
> > > > governor of the province of Jersey, to whom I was introduced
> > yesterday".
> > > >
> > > > "Rogerene" interdates OED3  1754--1784.
> > > >
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