[Ads-l] "All art is propaganda."

Dan Goncharoff thegonch at GMAIL.COM
Tue Nov 18 19:37:15 UTC 2014 

This website, which claims to be "(t)he only genuine source of Marx quotes
on the internet, in which every quote is sourced by a link to the original
context," has the following:

https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/subject/quotes/

When communist artisans associate with one another, theory, propaganda,
etc., is their first end. But at the same time, as a result of this
association, they acquire a new need — the need for society — and what
appears as a means becomes an end. ... the brotherhood of man is no mere
phrase with them, but a fact of life, and the nobility of man shines upon
us from their work-hardened bodies.

Marx, Human Needs & the division of Labour (1844)

DanG

On Tue, Nov 18, 2014 at 12:49 PM, Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at gmail.com>
wrote:

> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> -----------------------
> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Poster:       Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM>
> Subject:      Re: "All art is propaganda."
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Surely there is a passage in Marx to similar effect, but where?
>
>
> JL
>
>
>
> On Tue, Nov 18, 2014 at 11:28 AM, Dan Goncharoff <thegonch at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> > -----------------------
> > Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> > Poster:       Dan Goncharoff <thegonch at GMAIL.COM>
> > Subject:      Re: "All art is propaganda."
> >
> >
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > No editor is mentioned in February or March. W. B. McCormick writes
> "Notes
> > of the
> > Studies and Galleries" in March 1918 though. I agree there is no clear
> > attribution.
> >
> > DanG
> >
> > On Tue, Nov 18, 2014 at 12:50 AM, ADSGarson O'Toole <
> > adsgarsonotoole at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
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> > > Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> > > Poster:       ADSGarson O'Toole <adsgarsonotoole at GMAIL.COM>
> > > Subject:      Re: "All art is propaganda."
> > >
> > >
> >
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >
> > > Dan Goncharoff wrote:
> > > > So do we credit the phrase to Guy Pene du Bois?
> > >
> > > The statement in 1918 might be labeled a precursor or an actual
> > > instance of the saying. Entries on QI sometimes trace evolving sayings
> > > without definitive demarcations.
> > >
> > > As to who wrote it. That's an excellent hypothesis, Dan. Guy Pene du
> > > Bois was the editor of Arts & Decoration and wrote many signed
> > > articles. His initials G.P.B are appended to the column "Notes of the
> > > Studies and Galleries" for January 1918
> > >
> > > But I do not see any name clearly attached to the "Notes of the
> > > Studies and Galleries" column of February 1918 that included the
> > > target quotation.
> > >
> > > Garson
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > DanG
> > > >
> > > > On Sun, Nov 16, 2014 at 1:02 PM, ADSGarson O'Toole <
> > > > adsgarsonotoole at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> > > >> -----------------------
> > > >> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> > > >> Poster:       ADSGarson O'Toole <adsgarsonotoole at GMAIL.COM>
> > > >> Subject:      Re: "All art is propaganda."
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > >
> >
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > >>
> > > >> Here is a precursor to Upton Sinclair's statement in 1918 expressed
> > > >> tentatively instead of emphatically.
> > > >>
> > > >> Issue Date: February 1918
> > > >> Periodical: Arts & Decoration
> > > >> Article: Notes of the Studies and Galleries,
> > > >> Star Page 165, Quote Page 165,
> > > >> Publisher: Dexter W. Hewitt at Adam Budge, Inc.
> > > >> Database: Google Books Full View
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > >
> >
> http://books.google.com/books?id=hhbnAAAAMAAJ&q=%22if+all+art%22#v=snippet&
> > > >>
> > > >> [Begin excerpt]
> > > >> Yet we sometimes wonder if all art is not propaganda--political or
> > > >> spiritual and always egotistic.
> > > >> [End excerpt]
> > > >>
> > > >> Garson
> > > >>
> > > >> On Sat, Nov 15, 2014 at 8:03 PM, Jonathan Lighter
> > > >> <wuxxmupp2000 at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >> > ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> > > >> -----------------------
> > > >> > Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> > > >> > Poster:       Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM>
> > > >> > Subject:      Re: "All art is propaganda."
> > > >> >
> > > >>
> > >
> >
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > >> >
> > > >> > That occurred to me too, but I don't see a ref. in GB or Hathi.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Prob. Marx said something more prolix.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > JL
> > > >> >
> > > >> > On Sat, Nov 15, 2014 at 6:13 PM, Joel S. Berson <Berson at att.net>
> > > wrote:
> > > >> >
> > > >> >> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> > > >> >> -----------------------
> > > >> >> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> > > >> >> Poster:       "Joel S. Berson" <Berson at ATT.NET>
> > > >> >> Subject:      Re: "All art is propaganda."
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >>
> > > >>
> > >
> >
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >> At 11/15/2014 04:57 PM, Jonathan Lighter wrote:
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >> >Not in YBQ, but it gets 30,000 raw Googlits.  I recently read it
> > in
> > > a
> > > >> >> movie
> > > >> >> >review.
> > > >> >> >
> > > >> >> >1925 Upton Sinclair _Mammonart_ (Pasadena: pub. by the author)
> 9:
> > > All
> > > >> art
> > > >> >> >is propaganda. It is universally and inescapably propaganda;
> > > sometimes
> > > >> >> >unconsciously, but often deliberately, propaganda.
> > > >> >> >
> > > >> >> >Rather a dilute meaning of "propaganda," wouldn't you say? The
> > > relevant
> > > >> >> OED
> > > >> >> >def. is
> > > >> >> >
> > > >> >> >"The systematic dissemination of information, esp. in a biased
> or
> > > >> >> >misleading way, in order to promote a political cause or point
> of
> > > view.
> > > >> >> >Also: information disseminated in this way; the means or media
> by
> > > which
> > > >> >> >such ideas are disseminated."
> > > >> >> >
> > > >> >> >Sinclair seems to mean rather that all art exerts some influence
> > on
> > > >> >> >beliefs, willy-nilly.  As dothose who repeat the assertion (usu.
> > > >> without
> > > >> >> >attribution).
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >> Sinclair was a utopian, left-wing, progressive Democrat,
> Socialist,
> > > >> >> Wobbly-supporting pinko, wasn't he?  "All art is propaganda" is
> > > >> >> something I could imagine said by Karl Marx.
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >> Joel
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >> >Factoid:  Wackipedia calls the book-length essay _Mammonart_ a
> > > "novel."
> > > >> >> >
> > > >> >> >JL
> > > >> >> >
> > > >> >> >
> > > >> >> >--
> > > >> >> >"If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle
> > the
> > > >> >> truth."
> > > >> >> >
> > > >> >> >------------------------------------------------------------
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> > > >> >>
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> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> > --
> > > >> > "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle
> the
> > > >> truth."
> > > >> >
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> > > >>
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>
>
> --
> "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the truth."
>
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