"flounder", "red-herring", "magic glass", 1703 -- for the OED

[Joel S. Berson]

At 10/3/2014 11:14 PM, Dan Goncharoff wrote:

>When I read Terrible Robin I think Robin Goodfellow.

I also wondered (and as well about Robin Hood, who might have been 
called "terrible" by the sheriff) but lacked contemporary quotations 
for "terrible Robin" with useful context.

Joel

>On Oct 3, 2014 8:43 PM, "Joel S. Berson" <Berson at att.net> wrote:
>
> > ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> > -----------------------
> > Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> > Poster:       "Joel S. Berson" <Berson at ATT.NET>
> > Subject:      "flounder", "red-herring", "magic glass", 1703 -- for the OED
> >
> > 
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > If my interpretation of the 1703 quotation below is correct:
> >
> > flounder, n.2, antedates OED2 1867--.  A stumbling about, in thought or
> > word.
> > red herring, n., sense 2, antedates OED3 1807--.  A piece of
> > information which is misleading or untrue.
> > magic glass, under "magic, adj.", sense 1.b.,  antedates OED3 1792--.
> >
> > "Jerry Scandal, Whale and Ghost Printer in White Friars, had plagued
> > the Town above Ten years with Apparitions, Murders, Catechisms, and
> > the like Stuff; By showing him the Phyz of Terrible Robin in my Green
> > Magic Glass, I so effectually frighted him, that he has since
> > demolish'd all his Letters, dismiss'd his Hawkers, flung up his
> > business, and instead of News, cries Flounders and Red herring about
> > the Streets."
> >
> > [Aside -- Who is "Terrible Robin"?]
> >
> > I suggest for "Flounders and Red herring" the following
> > interpretation as figurative:
> >
> > 1)  flounder, n., "a stumbling about, incoherently and
> > aimlessly."  Antedates OED2 1867--.
> >
> > My analysis -- Flounder, n.2, as "the action of flounder, verb", here
> > as "floundering about" ("like a headless chicken", 1870; and see 1822
> > quotation below).  For the verb, the OED has (under 1.b.) three
> > apposite quotations (encompassing Brown's date):
> >
> > 1684   S. E. Answer Remarks upon Dr. H. More 299   The Remarker, in
> > the very entrance, shuffles and flunders.
> > 1728   Pope Dunciad i. 104   The Bard..writ, and flounder'd on, in
> > mere despair.
> > 1822   W. Hazlitt Table-talk II. viii. 197   They flounder about
> > between fustian in expression, and bathos in sentiment.
> >
> > Perhaps an evolution from "motion" in 1684 to "writing, thought" in
> > 1728?  (Unless the 1684 "entrance" of the "Remarker" refers to the
> > beginning of his remarks rather than his coming in to someplace.)
> >
> > 2)   red herring, n., as "something misleading or untrue".  Antedates
> > OED3 sense 2, 1807--.
> >
> > My analysis -- Here, used in contrast to "News" (which is generally
> > assumed to be truthful).
> >
> > 3)  "magic glass" under "magic, adj." 1.b., antedates OED3 1792--.
> > -----
> >
> > Bibliographic information:
> >
> > "A True and Faithful Catalogue of some remarkable Cures perform'd in
> > the other World by the famous Signior Guisippe Hanesio, High German
> > Doctor and Astrologer."  Within "A Letter from Signior Guisippe
> > Hanesio, High-German Doctor and Astrologer in Brandipolis, to his
> > Friends at Will's Coffee-House in Covent Garden. By Mr. T. Brown."
> > (This is also known as "Mr. Jo. Haine's 2nd Letter, to his Friends at
> > Will's.")  In "A Continuation or Second Part of the Letters from the
> > Dead to the Living, By Mr. Tho. Brown, Capt. Ayloff, Mr. Henry
> > Barker, &c."  London, Printed in the Year, 1703.  Pages [21]--[22]
> > (brackets on pages).   (Misnumbered; page [17] follows page 32.)  ECCO.
> >
> > Joel
> >
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> >
>
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