[Ads-l] [C18-L] Rochester, children, and theories

Fri Apr 10 09:57:38 UTC 2015

I found three matches with GB dates in 1946. That was the earliest
year I could find in a preliminary search. Two of the matches
mentioned "Lord Rochester" and one match mentioned "a veteran in the
marriage game". None of these 1946 matches has been verified on paper.

There is a blind match in 1947 in "Reader's Digest". The match is in
HathiTrust and no text is visible (that is why I am calling it a blind
match).

I can verify matches starting in 1949.

The Dictionary of Humorous Quotations (1949) compiled by Evan Esar
included the joke with an ascription to "ROCHESTER, Lord, 1647-1680,
English poet." This was the first cite I saw that particularized "Lord
Rochester". I do not know if there were any other candidates. Robin
pointed to another "John Wilton". Was he addressed as "Lord
Rochester"?

Nigel Rees included an instance of the quip in "Cassell's Humorous
Quotations" with a 1951 citation.

Here are selected citations in chronological order. This first
citation is a thematic precursor from 1904.

Date: 1904 October 11
Newspaper: Chicago Daily Tribune
Newspaper location: Chicago, Illinois
Article: Get List of Don'ts: Ravenswood Woman's Club Mothers Are Given a Warning
Quote Page 1, Column 4

[Begin excerpt]
Six Children Can Upset Theories

"Six children can upset all the theories one ever dared to obtain,"
said Mrs. McLauchlan.
"Humility comes with years of motherhood.
[End excerpt]

Year: 1946
Periodical: World Oil (UNC catalog suggests that the title changed and
the title in 1946 might be "The Oil Weekly")
Volume 123
Quote Page 123
Database: Google Books Snippet View; data may be inaccurate; must be
verified on paper;

[Begin extracted text visible in snippet]
A veteran in the marriage game
says: "Before I married I had six
theories about bringing up children.
Now I have six children and no
theories."
[End extracted text]

Year: 1946
Book: Parent education through home and school.
Publisher: Family life bureau, Washington, D.C.
Quote Page 11
Database: Google Books Snippet View; data may be inaccurate; must be
verified on paper; probe for 1946 matched a snippet that stated some
of the material in the volume was from a conference held February 5-8,
1946. The following is from the Notes section of the Worldcat
description: "[Addresses] originally presented at the fourteenth
annual meeting of the National Catholic conference on family life,
held at the Catholic University of America, February 5-8,
1946"--Preface.

[Begin extracted text visible in snippet]
"Before I got married," wrote Lord Rochester, "I had six
theories about bringing up children. Now I have six children--and
no theories."
[End extracted text]

Year: 1946, Month range: January to June
Periodical: Woman's Home Companion
Volume 73
Quote Page 46
Database: Google Books Snippet View; data may be inaccurate; must be
verified on paper; probe for 1946 matched a snippet that showed header
or footer string "February 1946". This suggests that the year is
probably accurate but the month is still uncertain

[Begin extracted text visible in snippet]
Experience Teaches--

Before I got married I had six
theories about bringing up chil-
dren. Now I have six children--
and no theories.
                LORD ROCHESTER
[End extracted text]

Year: 1947, Month: Unknown
Periodical: The Reader's Digest
Volume 50
Quote Page 90
Database: HathiTrust; data may be inaccurate; must be verified on paper

[The text below is conjectural; based on snippet in 1949 RD reprint]
Before I got married I had six theories about bringing up children.
Now I have six children -- and no theories. --Lord Rochester
[End conjectural text]

[ref] 1949, The Dictionary of Humorous Quotations, Edited by Evan
Esar, Section: Lord Rochester, Quote Page 167, Doubleday, Garden City,
New York. (Verified on paper in 1989 reprint edition from Dorset
Press, New York) [/ref]

[Begin excerpt]
ROCHESTER, Lord, 1647-1680, English poet.
I. Before I got married I had six theories about bringing up children;
now I have six children, and no theories.
[End excerpt]

Date: 1949 November 19
Newspaper: Kentucky New Era
Newspaper location: Hopkinsville, Kentucky
Article: Scout Program Of Community Outlined At Meet Last Night
Quote Page 1, Column 3
Database: Google News Archive

[Begin excerpt]
Three stories told by the regional Scout leader brought continuous
laughs from the group. The stories follow:
"The men who claim they are boss at home will lie about other things also.
"The father of six children said that he had six theories about
rearing children before he married but now he has six children and no
theories.
[End excerpt]

[ref] 1955, Speaker's Encyclopedia of Stories, Quotations, and
Anecdotes by Jacob M. Braude, Topic: Youth, Quote Page 421,
Prentice-Hall, Englewood Cliffs, New Jersey. (Verified on paper in
third Printing of May 1956)[/ref]

[Begin excerpt]
Following the birth of his third son, Leonard Lyons, columnist mused:
"Before I got married I had three theories about bringing up kids. Now
I have three kids -- and no theories."
-- IRVING HOFFMAN, Hollywood Reporter
[End excerpt]

Garson

On Thu, Apr 9, 2015 at 11:57 PM, Robin Hamilton
<robin.hamilton3 at virginmedia.com> wrote:
> ---------------------- Information from the mail header -----------------------
> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Poster:       Robin Hamilton <robin.hamilton3 at VIRGINMEDIA.COM>
> Subject:      Re: [C18-L] Rochester, children, and theories
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Perhaps another "John Wilton, Member of Parliament"?  This seems to be
> hinted at in one of the google-books hits for the quotation.
>
> Wiki has this about him, and the dates fit the tone of the quotation better:
>
> "John Charles Wilmot, 1st Baron Wilmot of Selmeston PC (2 April 1893 - 22
> July 1964) was a British Labour Party politician. He served under Clement
> Attlee as Minister of Aircraft Production from 1945 to 1946 and as Minister
> of Supply from 1945 to 1947."
>
> Not that I have anything against 18C-L, but years ago, when I was vaguely
> thinking about internet discussion groups considered in terms of primate
> territoriality (rather than a downhill bicycle race), that particular list
> struck me as an extreme example of the noyeau social grouping most commonly
> associated with the silverbacked gorilla.
>
> Deference and territoriality rule, ya bass!
>
> Robin Hamilton
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Joel Berson
> Sent: Friday, April 10, 2015 1:07 AM
> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
> Subject: Fw: [C18-L] Rochester, children, and theories
>
> ---------------------- Information from the mail
> header -----------------------
> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Poster:       Joel Berson <berson at ATT.NET>
> Subject:      Fw: [C18-L] Rochester, children, and theories
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> If anyone is interested in following this up, reply directly to
> C18-L at LISTS.PSU.EDU
> Joel
>     ----- Forwarded Message -----
>   From: Russ Hunt <hunt at STU.CA>
> To: C18-L at LISTS.PSU.EDU
> Sent: Thursday, April 9, 2015 6:42 PM
> Subject: [C18-L] Rochester, children, and theories
>
> I should be able to find the answer to this, but it occurs to me
> that someone on this wonderful list may already know it, more
> quickly than I can find it.
>
> I just receive a posting in which Rochester is quoted as saying:
>
> "Before I got married I had six theories about bringing up
> children; now I have six children and no theories."
>
> I did a quick Google search, and found many attributions of this
> to Rochester, but none I trust. This sounds just flat wrong: my
> ear says nobody in the Restoration would speak, or write, this
> way. "Got married"? "six theories"? "Bringing up" children?
>
> And, well, Lord Rochester as a humbled domestic pater familias?
>
> Does anyone know immediately whether this is actually a quote --
> or, better, when or how it came to be attributed to Rochester?
>
> -- Russ
>
> --
> Russ Hunt
> Professor Emeritus
> Saint Thomas University
> http://www.stu.ca/~hunt
>
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> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>
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