[Ads-l] Jack pot

Tue Dec 1 03:02:10 UTC 2015

Thanks for your response Peter R., and thanks for your helpful advice
about categories of entities with misleading dates.

The link you included points to the tenth edition (based on the title
page and preface title) of "The Modern Pocket Hoyle" with a copyright
date of 1880 and the somewhat confusing additional note: "Entered
according to Act of Congress in the year1868".

 http://hdl.handle.net/2027/hvd.hn5tsq?urlappend=%3Bseq=6

In Peter M.'s original message he included a link to the seventh
edition (based on the title page and preface title) of "The Modern
Pocket Hoyle" in Google Books.

http://tinyurl.com/pq5g9mu

The seventh edition did mention "Jack Pots" and stated in the preface
that "Jack Pots" was a new addition to the text. The edition included
the note "Entered according to Act of Congress in the year 1868". But
unlike the tenth edition, the seventh edition did not include an
additional copyright notice.

Following the link from GB to WorldCat leads to a catalog entry that
claims the 1868 copyright is accurate.

I probed the text for every year between 1868 and 1880 inclusive and
only found matches for 1868.

On page 369 there is an article titled "THE ENGLISH LAWS OF LA CROSSE"
then ends with an asterisk that points to a footnote mentioning 1868.

[Begin excerpt]
Arranged by the Association and confirmed by all the associate clubs
February 12, 1868.
[End excerpt]

It is possible that the 1868 date is accurate. So far, the evidence
I've seen is consistent with a date of 1868. But as you noted, it is
conceivable that Dick & Fitzgerald did not include an updated
copyright notice.

Feedback and additional thoughts are welcome,
Garson

On Mon, Nov 30, 2015 at 8:57 PM, Peter Reitan <pjreitan at hotmail.com> wrote:
> ---------------------- Information from the mail header -----------------------
> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Poster:       Peter Reitan <pjreitan at HOTMAIL.COM>
> Subject:      Re: Jack pot
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> I have experienced similar dating difficulties.  Dick & Fitzgerald is parti=
> cularly sloppy in updating copyright dates for later editions. =20
>
> Other problem publications also include plays=2C which are often dated by t=
> heir "first performance" date=2C listed on the first page=2C but which are =
> actually published later.  Collections of songs are also frequently misdate=
> d. =20
>
> Sometimes=2C you can more closely date a book by looking for things that ar=
> e advertised - if a book=2C song=2C or event mentioned in the ads is known =
> to have occurred on a certain date - then you can at least figure out that =
> the publication is later than that date=3B even if you cannot figure out th=
> e actual date.  Songs about the Union or Fort Sumter=2C for example=2C clea=
> rly date something after 1860.
>
> In the case of the "jack pots" reference in Hoyle=2C if you search Hathi Tr=
> ust for title - "hoyle" - AND - containing "jack pots" - the earliest versi=
> on that comes up bears the copyright date of 1880.  It was published by Dic=
> k & Fitzgerald=2C and confusingly (yet typically for them) says=2C "Entered=
>  According to Act of Congress in the year 1868" - followed shortly by=2C "C=
> opyright 1880." =20
> http://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=3Dhvd.hn5tsq=3Bview=3D1up=3Bseq=3D202
>
> The versions of Hoyle in the 1860s do not appear to include "jack pots."
> Peter
>> Date: Mon=2C 30 Nov 2015 18:18:46 -0500
>> From: adsgarsonotoole at GMAIL.COM
>> Subject: Re: Jack pot
>> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
>>=20
>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header -----------------=
> ------
>> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>> Poster:       ADSGarson O'Toole <adsgarsonotoole at GMAIL.COM>
>> Subject:      Re: Jack pot
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------=
> ------
>>=20
>> Following the lead of the intriguing citations found by Peter I've
>> located an instance of "Jack Pots" that was printed between the covers
>> of a book with an 1859 copyright. The term "Jack Pots" appeared in an
>> appended section filled with advertisements from the publisher of the
>> book. However=2C I now suspect that the book was reprinted and the
>> advertising section was created at a date later than 1859.
>>=20
>> Although this message is about a specific narrow question it may be of
>> wider interest to ADS list readers because it highlights a mechanism
>> that might lead to misdating citations.
>>=20
>> The apparent 1866 citation located by Peter appears in the same type
>> of appended advertising section=2C and there may be some uncertainty
>> about its date.
>>=20
>> Peter's 1868 citation for "Jack Pots" is in the main text of the book
>> and looks solid=2C I think.
>>=20
>> The instance of "Jack Pots" in these citations is the name of a
>> specific card game=3B hence=2C the semantics differs a bit from the
>> definition of "jack pot" given in the OED which indicates that the
>> term refers to a betting pool (e.g.=2C money or other valuables) or a
>> prize. The citation is useful because it helps to illuminate the
>> etymology of "jack pot"=2C I think.
>>=20
>> Here is the Oxford English Dictionary definition for "jack pot"=2C noun
>> (under the entry for the word "jack"=2C noun)
>>=20
>> [Begin excerpt]
>> jack-pot n.  (a) in draw-poker=2C a pot or pool that has to accumulate
>> until one of the players can open the betting with a pair of jacks or
>> better=3B hence fig.=3B (also) any large prize=2C as from a lottery or a
>> gambling machine=3B often=2C a prize that accumulates until it is won=3B =
> to
>> hit the jack-pot: to win such a prize=3B to have an extraordinary stroke
>> of luck=2C (b) (see quot. 1914).
>> [End excerpt]
>>=20
>> Here is the metadata for the apparent 1859 citation and a set of links
>> into HathiTrust:
>>=20
>> Year: 1859 Copyright
>> Title: Fireside Games for Winter Evening Amusement: A Repertory of
>> Social Recreations=2C Containing an Explanation of the Most Entertaining
>> Games Suited to the Family Circle=2C and Also Adapted for Social
>> Gatherings=2C Pic-nics and Parties
>> Publisher: Dick and Fitzgerald=2C New York
>> Page: Unnumbered page in appended advertising section
>>=20
>> Link to the main page of the book:
>> http://hdl.handle.net/2027/nc01.ark:/13960/t3xs6ss20
>>=20
>> Link to title page of book:
>> http://hdl.handle.net/2027/nc01.ark:/13960/t3xs6ss20?urlappend=3D%3Bseq=
> =3D7
>>=20
>> Link to page with 1859 date:
>> http://hdl.handle.net/2027/nc01.ark:/13960/t3xs6ss20?urlappend=3D%3Bseq=
> =3D8
>>=20
>> Link to page with "Jack Pots":
>> http://hdl.handle.net/2027/nc01.ark:/13960/t3xs6ss20?urlappend=3D%3Bseq=
> =3D153
>>=20
>> The publisher Dick and Fitzgerald appended an advertising section
>> which listed other titles the company was offering for sale including:
>> "Trump's" American Hoyle=3B or=2C Gentleman's Hand-Book of Games.
>>=20
>> Here is the part of the advertisement that mentioned "Jack Pots":
>>=20
>> [Begin excerpt]
>> It also contains clear descriptions of all the games played in the
>> United States=2C with the American rules for playing them=3B including
>> Euchre=2C Bezique=2C Cribbage=2C Baccara=2C All Fours=2C Loo=2C Poker=2C =
> Brag=2C
>> Piquet=2C Pedro Sancho=2C Penuchle=2C Railroad Euchre=2C Jack Pots=2C Eca=
> rte=2C .
>> . .
>> [End excerpt]
>>=20
>> If the advertising section was created at a time that matched the book
>> copyright (or before) then this citation would be an antedating.
>> However=2C it seems likely that the "Fireside Games" book was reprinted
>> and a newly updated advertising section was appended. I have seen this
>> happen with other books. If the advertising section was updated then
>> its date of creation becomes uncertain.
>>=20
>> I tried to determine the publication date of the book which was being
>> advertised: "Trump's" American Hoyle=3B or=2C Gentleman's Hand-Book of
>> Games. Unfortunately=2C WorldCat reveals that there is some uncertainty
>> about the publication date of the book.
>>=20
>> The earliest edition was dated 1864 but it was a "3d ed.=2C carefully
>> rev. with numerous corrections and additions". Therefore this does not
>> rule out an 1859 edition.
>>=20
>> So I examined an 1864 edition of "The American Hoyle" located in
>> HathiTrust=2C and I was unable to find the section about "Jack Pots". I
>> think this section was added at a later time.
>>=20
>> http://hdl.handle.net/2027/hvd.hn5tr6
>>=20
>> The term "Jack Pots" may have been added in 1868. The 1868 edition of
>> "The Modern Pocket Hoyle: Containing All the Games of Skill and Chance
>> as Played in this Country at the Present Time" in Google Books states
>> the following in the "Preface to the Seventh edition" (as Peter
>> alluded to):
>>=20
>> [Begin excerpt]
>> Among the many notable changes and additions presented in this
>> edition=2C particular attention may be called to the following: The
>> games of Pedro=2C and Pedro Sancho=2C which are of Western origin=2C and
>> promise to become general favorites=3B Jack-Pots=2C a modification of the
>> game of Draw Poker=2C now rapidly gaining in popularity. . .
>> [End excerpt]
>>=20
>> Of course=2C there may be divergent editions with different updates. But
>> based on current information the 1859 and 1866 citations for "Jack
>> Pots" are uncertain=2C I think.
>>=20
>> Garson
>>=20
>>=20
>> On Mon=2C Nov 30=2C 2015 at 4:07 AM=2C Peter Morris
>> <peter_morris_1 at blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>> > ---------------------- Information from the mail header ---------------=
> --------
>> > Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>> > Poster:       Peter Morris <peter_morris_1 at BLUEYONDER.CO.UK>
>> > Subject:      Jack pot
>> > -----------------------------------------------------------------------=
> --------
>> >
>> > About a year ago=2C Fred antedated "jack-pot" to 1873.
>> > http://listserv.linguistlist.org/pipermail/ads-l/2014-December/135376.h=
> tm=3D
>> > l
>> >
>> >
>> > I believe I've found two earlier examples.=3D20
>> >
>> > Here is an edition of  The Modern Pocket Hoyle from  1868
>> > It's described as one of the changes/ additions from the previous =3D
>> > edition
>> > http://tinyurl.com/pq5g9mu
>> >
>> > And an advert for American Hoyle from 1866 .
>> > http://tinyurl.com/ox5o89v
>> >
>> > ------------------------------------------------------------
>> > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>>=20
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>> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>                                           =
>
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