[Ads-l] fed up of; earlier from

Sun Nov 15 17:11:57 UTC 2015

> On Nov 15, 2015, at 9:35 AM, Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM> wrote:
> 
> "For" seems to imply conscious purpose, or placement by some outside
> influence, or some suggestion of benefit to the object of (not "for") the
> preposition. "Of" seems merely to suggest a close relationship.
> 
> But it's probably more complicated than that.

I agree; "for" is a benefactive here, "of" is more generalized.  That seems right in the case of "the teacher for/of that class", where the prepositions are not interchangeable.  I suspect that something like that is going on with your "leader for Israel" example too. The choice of preposition in "s/he's the leader of/for America" is not arbitrary. 

But I think the more general trend, when semantic differentiae are not involved, is toward increased use of "of".  Various observers have characterized "of" as a kind of default preposition, including cases where it's there for purely structural reasons and there's no semantic nuance ("destroyed the city" vs. "the destruction of the city"), and maybe that's what's going on with cases of what I was calling "'of' sickness" (as in "bored of", a la "tired of", "fond of").  But there are many other cases where the preposition choice seems pretty arbitrary.  

LH
> 
> 
> 
> On Sun, Nov 15, 2015 at 8:52 AM, Charles C Doyle <cdoyle at uga.edu> wrote:
> 
>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>> -----------------------
>> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>> Poster:       Charles C Doyle <cdoyle at UGA.EDU>
>> Subject:      Re: fed up of; earlier from
>> 
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> 
>> And we would most idiomatically say (wouldn't we?)  "the assigned teacher
>> f=
>> or that class"--not "the assigned teacher of that class."
>> 
>> --Charlie
>> 
>> ________________________________________
>> From: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU> on behalf of
>> Jonath=
>> an Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM>
>> Sent: Saturday, November 14, 2015 9:13 PM
>> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
>> Subject: Re: fed up of; earlier from
>> 
>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>> -------------------=
>> ----
>> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>> Poster:       Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM>
>> Subject:      Re: fed up of; earlier from
>> 
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------=
>> ----
>> 
>> But contrast the phrase I heard earlier this week:
>> 
>> "Barack Obama, the United States' President, met with the leader for
>> Israel, Benjamin Netanyahu."
>> 
>> As I may have indicated years back, "for" is often showing up where you'd
>> expect "of."
>> 
>> JL
>> 
>> On Sat, Nov 14, 2015 at 7:03 PM, Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at yale.edu>
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>>> -----------------------
>>> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>>> Poster:       Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at YALE.EDU>
>>> Subject:      Fwd: fed up of; earlier from
>>> 
>>> 
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------=
>> ------
>>> 
>>> Except that as we've discussed in various previous exchanges on the =3D
>>> list, the tendency for various selected prepositions to neutralize to =3D
>>> "of" ("bored of" is just one of many) is extremely widespread.  I'm =3D
>>> dubious that each one is a sui generis blend; it seems much more =3D
>>> economical to treat this as an instance of what we might call "_of_ =3D
>>> sickness", on the model of "dative sickness" in Icelandic, the tendency =
>> =3D
>>> for various object cases selected idiosyncratically by various verbs to =
>> =3D
>>> be neutralized to dative.   In any case, I don't find the blend analysis
>> =
>> =3D
>>> a "no doubt"er.  (And anyway, how could we be sure it's based on "sick =
>> =3D
>>> of" rather than "tired of"?)
>>> 
>>> LH=3D20
>>> 
>>>> Begin forwarded message:
>>>> =3D20
>>>> From: "Cohen, Gerald Leonard" <gcohen at MST.EDU>
>>>> Subject: Re: fed up of; earlier from
>>>> Date: November 14, 2015 at 5:02:34 PM EST
>>>> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
>>>> Reply-To: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>>>> =3D20
>>>> "Fed up of" is no doubt a blend: "fed up with" + "sick of".
>>>> G. Cohen=3D20
>>>> ________________________________________
>>>> Jonathan Lighter [wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM], Saturday, November 14,
>> 2015 =
>> =3D
>>> 2:35 PM, wrote:
>>>> "Fed Up Of 'Fantasy' Breastfeeding Pics, Photographer Captures The =3D
>>> Reality"
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> The American Dialect Society - =3D
>>> 
>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=3D3Dhttp-3A__www.americandiale=
>> ct.=3D
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>> org&d=3D3DAwIFAg&c=3D3D-dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=3D3DwFp3X4Mu39hB2bf13gtz0=
>> ZpW1TsS=3D
>>> 
>> xPIWYiZRsMFFaLQ&m=3D3DlI6y5a7v4xCgcfSEn2vDvjB-v656m_L7WGcg_ShjLcU&s=3D3DC=
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>>> 
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>> 
>> --
>> "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the truth."
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> 
> 
> -- 
> "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the truth."
> 
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