[Ads-l] Fw: [ADS-L] Enslavement of Native Americans [was: wench

[Joel Berson]

Again, this is presentism.  I, and I believe Jim, are calling what it was by the terms used when it was.

If you do a little looking, you will find Jewish forced laborers in Nazi Germany referred today as "slaves" or "slave laborers", even in Wikipedia ("Forced labour under German rule during World War II") and the Jewish Virtual Library.


And to say "I'm not going back and forth with you" is the stereotypical ploy to have the last word.

Joel


      From: Z Rice <zrice3714 at GMAIL.COM>
 To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU 
 Sent: Friday, April 1, 2016 12:43 PM
 Subject: Re: [ADS-L] Fw: [ADS-L] Enslavement of Native Americans [was: wench
   
Jim Landau, I'm not going back and forth with you regarding your thinking.
As I said earlier, they were ENSLAVED. They were not "slaves", and they
damn sure weren't servants. They were Africans/human beings who were
ENSLAVED. Again, call it what it was.

As I said the first time, the use of the term "slave" on this mailing list
is very telling as it implicitly LEGITIMIZES the enslavement of children,
women, and men. The language in your message, and on this mailing list
engages in this practice, and I will never submit to navigating history
with that sort of manipulative language and warped thinking.

Jews were enslaved by the Germans to build the Autobahn, and other
infrastructure, however, they are NOT routinely described as "slaves", they
are described as "Jews". And the Germans/Nazis, whoever they were/are - are
never described as their "owners" or "masters". This type of manipulative
language is solely reserved for "The Blacks".  It is perverse to me that
you are even attempting to engage me using this language, and actually
expect me to not be hostile to it.

I'm not going back and forth with you. However, I will not sit idly by and
be alienated and submitted as others engage in the implicit dehumanization
of a people and the implicit legitimization of the human trafficking, mass
rape, torture, starvation, and death of children, women, and men -
especially when those children, women, and men happen to be my ancestors.

On Fri, Apr 1, 2016 at 4:51 PM, James A. Landau <JJJRLandau at netscape.com>
wrote:

> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> -----------------------
> Sender:      American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Poster:      "James A. Landau" <JJJRLandau at NETSCAPE.COM>
> Subject:      Re: Fw: [ADS-L] Enslavement of Native Americans [was: wench
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> On Fri, 1 Apr 2016 01:07:38 +0200 Z Rice <zrice3714 at GMAIL.COM> wrote:
>
> <begin quote>
> "The Blacks" and Amerindians were enslaved in the United States. Our
> ancestors were not simply "servants". They were enslaved. Using the term
> 'servant' smacks of the revisionist use of "workers" and "immigrants" to
> refer to the same African population. Call it what it was.
> <end quote>
>
> Both Joel Berson and I explicitly used the word "slave".  "servant" was
> used to specify the duties to which these SLAVES were assigned.
> We both did, as you say, "call it what it was".
>
> If you forbid the use of "servant" in describing slaves, then you make it
> impossible to discuss slavery.
>
> You also forget the origin of this thread, which was to discuss the then
> meaning of "wench"---did it imply SLAVE woman?
>
> You seem to consider the word "revisionist" to be pejorative.  But
> consider:
> At one time (early 20th Century iirc) there was a school of historians who
> held that slaves in the Southern United States were happy to be slaves.
> Then along came revisionists, such as John Hope Franklin, who not only
> rebutted but refuted this idea.  I am sure that you agree with these
> particular revisionists.
>
> - Jim Landau
>
> PS: Did you note the "+0200"  in the mail header quoted at the top of this
> message?  We have an African-American, Benjamin Banneker, to thank for this.
>
>
>
> _____________________________________________________________
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>

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