[Ads-l] Dorchester

[Laurence Horn]

> On Apr 20, 2016, at 4:04 PM, Paul A Johnston, Jr <paul.johnston at WMICH.EDU> wrote:
> 
> The English town in Dorset doesn't drop the syllable either.  Cirencester in Gloucestershire used to throw me, because I was expecting [sIs at st@] or even [sIst@], which are both older pronunciations, but was assured it was [saIr at nsEst@], just what it looks like, nowadays.

Right, I'd wager reduction is blocked there because of the avoidance of the resultant "ns(s)t", because it's a less frequently occurring place name than "Worcester" or "Gloucester" (given the well-established frequency/reduction link recognized since Zipf), or both.  When Cirencester grows up to become a county town like the other two, and especially when it underwrites eponymous Shakespearean earls (rather than relatively obscure ones), then it can come back and petition for syllable relief. 

LH

>  And does Shrewsbury, MA have [u:] or [oU]?  I'd guess [u:] alone.
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Laurence Horn" <laurence.horn at YALE.EDU>
>> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
>> Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2016 1:00:33 PM
>> Subject: Re: Dorchester
>> 
>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>> -----------------------
>> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>> Poster:       Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at YALE.EDU>
>> Subject:      Re: Dorchester
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> 
>>> On Apr 20, 2016, at 11:08 AM, James A. Landau =
>> <JJJRLandau at netscape.com> wrote:
>>> =20
>>> My daughter, who lives in Canton, Massachusetts, asks:  If
>>> Gloucester =
>> is pronounced /glahster/ (I taste not the Pierian spring of IPA) and
>> =
>> Worcester is pronounced /wooster/, why isn't Dorchester pronounced =
>> /dorchster/ or /dorster/?
>> My theory:
>> 
>> Try saying the former ("Dorchster" with the /tSst/ cluster).  I
>> assume =
>> the derivation of /glaster/ (or more likely /glOst@/) is from =
>> /glOs at st@/> /glOsst@/ (with schwa-deletion) >/glOst@/ (with =
>> degemination), ditto with "Worcester".  But if you deleted the schwa
>> in =
>> "Dorchester" you'd end up with that unsightly, or unsoundly,
>> consonant =
>> cluster (or "clucester" as they used to be called).=20
>> 
>> LH=20
>>> =20
>>> =20
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