[Ads-l] Central site for antedatings WAS Re: Antedating of "Simoleon"

Thu Aug 11 02:04:34 UTC 2016

In 2014 George posted to the list a message including the sentence "In as much as no one came crying, I, yes, I am watching on
behalf of the OED, I surmised that indeed, no one is, and it seems that this is now confirmed."  Reading this hastily, I focused on the phrase "yes, I am watching on behalf of the OED," and reached the erroneous conclusion that George was watching on behalf of the OED!  Sorry for the misunderstanding on my part.

Fred Shapiro

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From: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU> on behalf of George Thompson <george.thompson at NYU.EDU>
Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2016 7:19 PM
To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
Subject: Re: Central site for antedatings WAS Re: Antedating of "Simoleon"

"George Thompson, I think, may be sending them information from the list"

Not at all.

GAT

On Wed, Aug 10, 2016 at 2:28 PM, Shapiro, Fred <fred.shapiro at yale.edu>
wrote:

> The ultimate place to check for antedatings, I think, is the OED, by which
> I mean not just the published dictionary but also emailing the staff to ask
> what is in their unpublished files.  I believe that the OED staff checks
> the ADS-L listserv for antedatings (George Thompson, I think, may be
> sending them information from the list).
>
>
> In terms of public websites, the ADS-L archives are the best source for
> antedatings. Other than the material that the OED staff itself finds, ADS-L
> is far and away the most prolific source of antedatings nowadays.
>
>
> barrypopik.com is worth checking for Americanisms and food terms and some
> other categories of vocabulary.  I don't know whether the OED staff checks
> barrypopik.com or not.  (Nowadays Barry seems to focus on quotations and
> jokes much more than on lexical items, but there is very rich information
> on antedatings of words and phrases in his older material.)
>
>
> I contribute almost all my antedatings to the OED.  Nowadays I post almost
> all my antedatings on ADS-L, but thousands of my older antedatings are not
> in ADS-L.  So emailing me is an option, although I don't have great access
> to my own older antedatings and I myself find it easier to email the OED to
> ask about my own older antedatings.
>
>
> Other than Barry and the ADS-Lers, most people who make antedating
> discoveries send their findings to the OED.  The antedaters (besides Barry)
> who don't send their findings to the OED and don't post on ADS-L are the
> elusive ones, but they don't produce a large amount of antedatings.  A new
> website probably wouldn't attract their contributions very much.
>
>
> For modern terms, I find it easier to search ProQuest, Newspapers.com,
> Readex, Google Books, etc. myself than to check the ADS-L archives and
> barrypopik.com and email the OED staff (I also have some access to
> internal unpublished OED databases, but I generally don't check things
> there).
>
>
> The question about giving away hard-won research is an interesting one.
> Because I send almost all my discoveries to the OED and ADS-L, I sometimes
> get in the situation where I want to write an article about a discovery but
> realize that I have pre-empted myself and the discovery is already publicly
> available or available for those with access to the OED.
>
>
> Fred Shapiro
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU> on behalf of
> MULLINS, WILLIAM D (Bill) CIV USARMY RDECOM AMRDEC (US) <
> william.d.mullins18.civ at MAIL.MIL>
> Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2016 1:11 PM
> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
> Subject: Central site for antedatings WAS Re: Antedating of "Simoleon"
>
> The OED is my default for antedatings.  If I find something that is
> earlier than they have it, I'll post it to the ADS-L and cc: the OED.
>
> I know that Jesse used to make sure that things posted here also got to
> the OED, but I don't know if he or anyone else scrapes the listserv anymore.
>
> The downside of that is that it may take a long time for the OED to update
> their entries with new data.
>
> I think wiki-type places are by default public domain.  I suppose you
> could set up one with password access, but that would limit contributors to
> only those who know about it and who are vetted by the admin (could William
> Minor have made the cut?)
>
> As far as credit, I doubt that many people who hunt antedatings really
> care, except for Barry.
>
> I tend to think that a wiktionary set up just for antedatings would be
> more trouble than it is worth.
>
>
>
> ________________________________________
> From: American Dialect Society [ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU] on behalf of Tim
> Stewart [timoteostewart1977 at GMAIL.COM]
> Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2016 10:16 AM
> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
> Subject:  Re: Antedating of "Simoleon"
>
>
> What would be the pros and cons of having wiktionary
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-
> 3A__en.wiktionary.org_wiki_simoleon&d=CwIFAg&c=-dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=
> sRkhHMQo6W5Ird1lkQFqb23bCfSHAR2XjUSUG53db5M&m=
> QEjcv2xzuomgzjUnRDZD7C6OavGCUODjsWwxX-ZBEag&s=HdFLepFi8s-
> pnxeqRhWHZBQQkZzRgjFZwZ88EKT_Yjg&e= >-like place for language
> researchers to post antedatings? Here are a few. Would love further input
> as to the pros and cons of such a site.
>
> Pros
> - Researchers could consult a single source for verifying current
> earliest-known dating of word usage). At present, researchers must
> double-check various listservs, websites, and blogs to see whether a
> particular antedating has already been discovered or not.
> - The page for a given word could include references to books, articles,
> publications, web pages, and so forth about that particular word.
>
> Cons
> - Who would serve as moderators/administrators of such a system?
> - Would the site's content be public domain? Would contributing to the site
> amount to giving away hard-won research?
>
> Tim
>
> -
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--
George A. Thompson
The Guy Who Still Looks Stuff Up in Books.
Author of A Documentary History of "The African Theatre", Northwestern
Univ. Pr., 1998..

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