[Ads-l] Amelioration of "infamous"?

[Jonathan Lighter]

I dunno. Blackbeard is a famous pirate and an infamous pirate too.

He was quite notorious.

JL


On Sat, Sep 24, 2016 at 10:47 AM, Joel Berson <berson at att.net> wrote:

> OK, I may have gotten the direction backwards -- worsening of "famous"
> rather than bettering of "infamous" -- but I was only trying to be
> humorous, not pejoratious. Still, there must have been some sense that
> "famous" could sometimes have negative associations.
>
>
> Joel
>
>
>       From: Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM>
>  To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
>  Sent: Saturday, September 24, 2016 7:18 AM
>  Subject: Re: [ADS-L] Amelioration of "infamous"?
>
> Humorous pejoration instead, via afterthought, of "famous"?
>
> JL
>
> On Fri, Sep 23, 2016 at 10:23 PM, Joel Berson <berson at att.net> wrote:
>
> > In the 1740s, there was “the famous or rather infamous Tom Bell”, an
> > itinerant confidence man and dismissed Harvard student.  Quote from
> Boston
> > Post Boy, 22 Aug. 1743.
> >
> >
> > Joel
> >
> >
> >      From: Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM>
> >  To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
> >  Sent: Friday, September 23, 2016 6:17 PM
> >  Subject: Re: [ADS-L] Amelioration of "notoriety"
> >
> > I
> >
> > "Notoriety" for me (and, I believe, most people ) is negative or
> (perhaps)
> > slightly or humorously ambivalent.
> >
> > The _Oxford American Writer's Thesaurus_ (2004) offers the following
> > synonyms (only) for "notoriety":
> >
> > "infamy, disrepute, ill repute, bad name, dishonor, discredit; _dated_
> ill
> > fame." "Positive" notoriety used to be called fame, celebrity, renown,
> > public recognition,  prominence, eminence, greatness, stature, repute,
> > stardom, popularity, etc.
> >
> > Seems like plenty to choose from. Positive "notoriety" strikes me as an
> > intentionally playful usage of the _People_ magazine type: cf.
> "infamous."
> >
> > II
> >
> > For "notorious," Oxford gives
> >
> > "infamous, scandalous; well known, famous, famed, legendary."
> >
> > A typical context is given as "_a notorious gunman of the Old West_."
> >
> > But I doubt one would speak of "the notorious ['legendary'] King Arthur,"
> > "the notorious ['famous'] Abraham Lincoln," or "Robert Frost's notorious
> > ['well known']  'Stopping by Woods."
> >
> > Or am I misusing the Thesaurus?
> >
> > JL
> >
> > On Fri, Sep 23, 2016 at 3:09 PM, Galen Buttitta <
> > satorarepotenetoperarotas3 at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > For me, "notoriety" defaults to a positive connotation. "Notorious" is
> > > negative.
> > >
> > > > On Sep 23, 2016, at 13:30, Marisa Brook <
> marisa.brook at MAIL.UTORONTO.CA
> > >
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Michigan State lost a beloved alumnus recently at the age of 24 and
> the
> > > campus store has been handing out copies of his obituary.<
> > > http://obits.mlive.com/obituaries/grandrapids/
> > obituary.aspx?pid=180805567>
> > > After three graceful, glowing paragraphs describing the young man's
> > > accomplishments and family, the fourth paragraph begins as follows:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > "Sadler gained notoriety for influencing others through
> communication."
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > After that, we get a description of his reportedly well-liked social
> > > media presence, which is said to have involved "humor, wit, and
> > philosophy".
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Seems to be a use of the word to mean 'popularity' (or at least
> > > 'considerable attention') - in a non-facetious obituary in a medium
> where
> > > the words were likely to have been carefully chosen. I'm intrigued. Has
> > > anyone else noticed cases of this?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ***************************
> > > > Marisa Brook
> > > > Assistant Professor
> > > > Department of Linguistics & Germanic, Slavic, Asian and African
> > Languages
> > > > Michigan State University
> > > > East Lansing, Michigan 48824-1027 USA
> > > > http://linglang.msu.edu/people/faculty/marisa-brook/
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> > >
> > > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the
> truth."
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> >
>
>
>
> --
> "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the truth."
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>



-- 
"If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the truth."

------------------------------------------------------------
The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org