[Ads-l] "man" avoidance

[Jonathan Lighter]

But even specificity has its practical limits.

One would not ordinarily write "309 non-African-American men and two
non-African-American women."

JL



On Sat, Sep 24, 2016 at 12:24 PM, Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Not wrong logically but weird stylistically. Which is the problem.
>
> The writer intentionally avoids writing "men" in the lead when, in this
> case, men are obviously the focus of the story."Men and women" are also
> easier to picture than "people." There's no good reason that I can think of
> to avoid the more customary phrase. The bad reason, however, seems to be
> the superstition that one should never specify anyone's sex unless
> absolutely unavoidable.
>
> And biological sex was indeed significant, since women were not permitted
> to fly in combat, maintain aircraft, etc. "Masculinity" (or "maleness") in
> the simple sense of being a male human adult was a requirement.
>
> To write "311 people," followed immediately by a discussion of planes shot
> down, suggests that a fair number of women were flying as combat pilots -
> as they do today.
>
>  "309 men and two women" is more specific and prevents that
> misinterpretation; and whatever prevents misinterpretation is a necessary
> thing.
>
> JL
>
>
>
> I
>
> On Sat, Sep 24, 2016 at 11:16 AM, Flourish Klink <flourish.klink at gmail.com
> > wrote:
>
>> Why is it wrong or weird to say "people" if the fact that they were men is
>> unimportant to the statement at hand? Certainly their masculinity is not
>> what shot down the planes. If they were women, it would only be
>> significant
>> inasmuch as it was unusual for the time, so only worth mentioning if your
>> point was to discuss sexism or similar. I don't see how this erases
>> history
>> at all.
>>
>> On Sat, Sep 24, 2016, 10:09 AM Marc Sacks <msacksg at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > Last night, my wife referred to two of her students as
>> "male-identified."
>> > Oh, I innocently asked, were they trans, gay, genderfluid? No, she
>> replied,
>> > just male. She was reporting her discomfort after innocently referring
>> to
>> > them as "guys." I'm not sure how serious she was; I don't think she was
>> > either.
>> >
>> > Marc Sacks
>> >
>> > On Fri, Sep 23, 2016 at 10:43 PM, Wilson Gray <hwgray at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > > ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>> > > -----------------------
>> > > Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>> > > Poster:       Wilson Gray <hwgray at GMAIL.COM>
>> > > Subject:      Re: "man" avoidance
>> > > ------------------------------------------------------------
>> > > -------------------
>> > >
>> > > On Fri, Sep 23, 2016 at 9:51 PM, Benjamin Barrett <
>> > mail.barretts at gmail.com
>> > > >
>> > > wrote:
>> > >
>> > > > =E2=80=9C311 mostly male people=E2=80=9D
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > "311 men and women"?
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > --=20
>> > > -Wilson
>> > > -----
>> > > All say, "How hard it is that we have to die!"---a strange complaint
>> to
>> > > come from the mouths of people who have had to live.
>> > > -Mark Twain
>> > >
>> > > ------------------------------------------------------------
>> > > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>> > >
>> >
>> > ------------------------------------------------------------
>> > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>> >
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>>
>
>
>
> --
> "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the truth."
>



-- 
"If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the truth."

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