[Ads-l] "Alternative facts" for EOTY

Wed Jan 25 21:52:00 UTC 2017

Presumably the innovator naively interpreted "history" to mean "truth about
the past."

JL.

On Wed, Jan 25, 2017 at 2:56 PM, ADSGarson O'Toole <
adsgarsonotoole at gmail.com> wrote:

> JL wrote:
> > Thanks, Garson.
>
> You're welcome,
>
> > Consider that an entertaining or moralizing "fable" is not quite the same
> > as a "lie."
>
> Yes, I agree that a "fable" and a "lie" are quite distinct. I have
> grouped quotations using those words into a family because I think it
> helps to illustrate the evolution of the saying.
>
> Your suggestion that there is a connection between the following two
> statements is valuable although at this time I have not attempted to
> trace the conjectural transition from the first to the second:
>
> "History is a lie agreed upon"
> "Truth Is a Lie Agreed Upon"
>
> Garson
>
> > On Wed, Jan 25, 2017 at 12:50 PM, Jonathan Lighter <
> wuxxmupp2000 at gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> A Washington Post reporter on MSNBC, attempting strict objectivity,
> >> offhandedly referred to Mr. Trump's "alternative facts" as "mistruths."
> >>
> >> JL
> >>
> >> On Wed, Jan 25, 2017 at 11:48 AM, ADSGarson O'Toole <
> >> adsgarsonotoole at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Jonathan Lighter wrote:
> >>> > The Net finds numerous recent posts asserting that leading self-help
> >>> guru
> >>> > Friedrich Nietzsche once wrote, "What is the truth but a lie agreed
> >>> upon?"
> >>> >
> >>> > And if a bigshot said it, it must be true.
> >>> >
> >>> > GB reveals no authentic attributions to Freddy, and none before 2016.
> >>>
> >>> I have examined a family of relayed sayings about historical truth:
> >>>
> >>> What Is History But a Fable Agreed Upon?
> >>> http://quoteinvestigator.com/2016/07/05/fable/
> >>>
> >>> [Begin excerpt]
> >>> Dear Quote Investigator: A popular skeptical viewpoint about history
> >>> can be expressed in a few different ways:
> >>>
> >>> 1) What is history but a fable agreed upon?
> >>> 2) History is a set of lies agreed upon.
> >>> 3) History is a set of lies that people have agreed upon.
> >>> [End excerpt]
> >>>
> >>> Garson
> >>>
> >>> >
> >>> > A blog site confidently attributes "Truth Is a Lie Agreed Upon" to
> (wait
> >>> > for it)..."Abraham Lincoln."
> >>> >
> >>> > Cf. the older and ever-popular "History is a lie agreed upon."
> >>> >
> >>> > So who, Garson, really introduced the phrase attributed to Nietzsche?
> >>> >
> >>> > JL
> >>> >
> >>> > On Tue, Jan 24, 2017 at 8:30 PM, Laurence Horn <
> laurence.horn at yale.edu>
> >>> > wrote:
> >>> >
> >>> >> > On Jan 24, 2017, at 8:14 PM, Joel Berson <berson at ATT.NET> wrote:
> >>> >> >
> >>> >> > A la "alt right"?
> >>> >> >
> >>> >> > Joel
> >>> >>
> >>> >> Seems so.  OED, s.v. “alt”:
> >>> >> Alternative; spec. denoting a version of some cultural phenomenon
> >>> (orig.
> >>> >> and esp. music) that is regarded as outside the mainstream of its
> >>> genre.
> >>> >> [citing “alt.rock” and “alt country”]
> >>> >>
> >>> >> So alt facts would be a cultural phenomenon regarded as outside the
> >>> >> mainstream of the fact genre (in being, well, not true).
> >>> >>
> >>> >> LH
> >>> >> >
> >>> >> >
> >>> >> >      From: Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM>
> >>> >> > To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
> >>> >> > Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2017 8:02 PM
> >>> >> > Subject: Re: [ADS-L] "Alternative facts" for EOTY
> >>> >> >
> >>> >> > MSNBC is now using the short form "alt facts."
> >>> >> >
> >>> >> > JL
> >>> >> >
> >>> >> > On Tue, Jan 24, 2017 at 3:06 PM, Jonathan Lighter <
> >>> >> wuxxmupp2000 at gmail.com>
> >>> >> > wrote:
> >>> >> >
> >>> >> >> Wrong! Wrong!
> >>> >> >>
> >>> >> >> Not a falsehood! It's an important alternate fact.
> >>> >> >>
> >>> >> >> Also note my signature line of many years standing.
> >>> >> >>
> >>> >> >> JL
> >>> >> >>
> >>> >> >> --
> >>> >> >> "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle
> the
> >>> >> truth."
> >>> >> >>
> >>> >> >
> >>> >> >
> >>> >> >
> >>> >> > --
> >>> >> > "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle
> the
> >>> >> truth."
> >>> >> >
> >>> >> > ------------------------------------------------------------
> >>> >> > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> >>> >> >
> >>> >> >
> >>> >> >
> >>> >> > ------------------------------------------------------------
> >>> >> > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> >>> >> >
> >>> >>
> >>> >> ------------------------------------------------------------
> >>> >> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> >>> >>
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> > --
> >>> > "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the
> >>> truth."
> >>> >
> >>> > ------------------------------------------------------------
> >>> > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> >>>
> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------
> >>> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the
> truth."
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the
> truth."
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>

-- 
"If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the truth."

------------------------------------------------------------
The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org