[Ads-l] Toast: Champagne for our real friends, real pain for your sham friends

Mark Mandel mark.a.mandel at GMAIL.COM
Fri Dec 14 04:07:19 UTC 2018

related though not the same: in the song "The Charladies' Ball", which
shows up with many variations in the lyrics, there're these lines (quoting
from the version I remember this fragment from, read many years ago):

We had champagne that night and real pain the next morning,
We danced in our socks at the Charladies' Ball.

Slight variant:
We had champagne that night but real pains next morning,

• https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Charladies%27_Ballhttps://mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=6502

I wonder whether the R. Popock referred to in a couple of your sources is
related to our own B. Popik.

Mark Mandel

On Thu, Dec 13, 2018, 2:59 PM ADSGarson O'Toole <adsgarsonotoole at gmail.com

> The saying in the subject line is listed in several references and
> websites such as: Oxford Dictionary of Humorous Quotations, Brewer's
> Famous Quotations, The Comic Encyclopedia by Evan Esar, The Home Book
> of Humorous Quotations edited by A. K. Adams, phrases.org.uk,
> wikiquote.org, brainyquote.com.
> I was sent a request to explore its provenance. If a list member can
> find and share a  match before 1793 or other interesting information,
> it would be appreciated.
> ...
> Barry Popik has an entry that begins with an 1809 citation.
> https://www.barrypopik.com/index.php/new_york_city/entry/champagne_to_our_real_friends_and_real_pain_to_our_sham_friends/
> ...

Here is a match in a work from 1800.
> [ref] 1800, Pocock's Everlasting Songster: Containing a Selection of
> the most approved songs, which have been and are likely to be sung for
> ever with Universal Applause; Also A Collection of Toasts &
> Sentiments, Quote Page xxi, Printed by R. Popock & Sold by Messrs.
> Robinson's, Gravesend, England. (Internet Archive at archive.org) link
> [/ref]
> https://archive.org/details/pocockseverlasti00pocouoft/page/n25
> [Begin excerpt]
> Champaign to our real friends, and real pain to our sham friends.
> [End excerpt]
> Thanks,
> Garson O’Toole
> QuoteInvestigator.com
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org

The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org

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