[Ads-l] Joan of Arc Quote

Mon Jan 1 16:58:12 UTC 2018

Thanks - this is interesting in that it seems to say that Joan said it (if she did) at some part of her trial.  Of course she probably had to answer to "why?" very often in varying settings.

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MARGARET E WINTERS
Former Provost
Professor Emerita - French and Linguistics
Wayne State University
Detroit, MI  48202

mewinters at wayne.edu

________________________________
From: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU> on behalf of ADSGarson O'Toole <adsgarsonotoole at GMAIL.COM>
Sent: Saturday, December 30, 2017 2:10 AM
To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
Subject: Re: Joan of Arc Quote

Dear ADS list members,
 To avoid duplication of efforts, below are the responses to Fred's
request that appeared on a different mailing list.

From: Kevin O'Kelly
Sent: Friday, December 22, 2017 10:10 PM

Fred that is a really interesting question. I am no expert on medieval
French history (or any other kind of history, for that matter) but I imagine
the earliest possible source for that would be The Trial of Rehabilitation.
I am traveling until Dec. 26 and don't like reading long documents on an
iPad, but if no one beats me to it I will see what I can do Dec 27.

Best,
Kevin

from: T.F. Mills
date: Fri, Dec 22, 2017 at 9:55 PM

The original is in the 1456 nullification or rehabilitation trial,
specifically the deposition of Henri de Royer with whom Jeanne stayed
a few weeks at Vancouleurs in 1429.  The trial transcript
is in Latin (Henri speaking of Jeanne in third person):

"Respondebat quod non timebat armatos, quia habebat viam suam
expeditam; quia, si
armati essent par viam, habebat Deum Dominum suum, qui sibi faceret
viam ad eundum
juxta dominum Dalphinum, et quod erat nata ad hoc faciendum."

Apparently reliable secondary source for that:

https://uclue.com/?xq=861
Question: Medieval France, Jeanne d'Arc - Uclue<https://uclue.com/?xq=861>
uclue.com
I am looking for the middle-french translation for the Jeanne d'Arc quote: "I am not afraid...I was born to do this". I plan to have this quote as a tattoo, so ...

(You might want to google Latin phrases to see if primary source is online.)

There have been numerous French translations as the language evolved
(often rendered as
Jeanne speaking in first person.)  I think the earliest I saw was
1661.  The most extensive
documentation is at:

http://www.stejeannedarc.net/
Ste Jeanne d'Arc<http://www.stejeannedarc.net/>
www.stejeannedarc.net
rand'pitié ! jamais personne ne secourut la France si à propos et si heureusement que cette Pucelle, et jamais mémoire de femme ne fut si déchirée.

Go to "recherches".  I tried the phrase "que je suis née" and got 3
hits pertaining to the
Vancouleurs encounter.  You might try variations.

An extensive documentation site in English provides this (see under
Henri le Royer):

http://www.stjoan-center.com/Trials/null04.html
St. Joan of Arc's Trial of Nullification<http://www.stjoan-center.com/Trials/null04.html>
www.stjoan-center.com
VAUCOULEURS AND JOINERY TO CHINON. JEAN DE NOVELEMPORT, Knight, called Jean de Metz. When Jeannette was at Vaucouleurs, I saw her dressed in a red dress, poor and ...

(You might want to explore further for an attribution of the translation.)

T.F. Mills
(Colorado, USA)

from: Daphne Drewello
date: Fri, Dec 22, 2017 at 11:42 PM

Maybe this will help.  It gives the quotation in the Latin of the trial and
the translation into French.  (Last sentence in X and Super X)

http://www.stejeannedarc.net/rehabilitation/dep_henri_royer.php
[http://www.stejeannedarc.net/images/site/logo_tourelles.jpg]<http://www.stejeannedarc.net/rehabilitation/dep_henri_royer.php>

Le procès de réhabilitation - déposition de Henri Le Royer<http://www.stejeannedarc.net/rehabilitation/dep_henri_royer.php>
www.stejeannedarc.net
Henri Le Royer, natif de Vaucouleurs, 64 ans, 27ème témoin produit, interrogé à Vaucouleurs le même samedi,

Needless to say, I could never have found this without Kevin's post.  C'est
un miracle de Noel.

Daphne Drewello
Jamestown, ND

from: John Cowan
date: Fri, Dec 22, 2017 at 11:24 PM

Except for a few letters signed "Jehanne", the only authentic report of
anything said by Joan is the Latin transcript of her trial, at which she
was called as a witness.  Here are citations for the English and French
translations:

   - *The trial of Joan of Arc : being the verbatim report of the
   proceedings from the Orleans manuscript*. trans. Scot, W.S. London:
   Folio Society. 1956. OCLC <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OCLC> 1182797
[https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/1b/OCLC_logo.svg/1200px-OCLC_logo.svg.png]<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OCLC>

OCLC - Wikipedia<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OCLC>
en.wikipedia.org
OCLC, currently incorporated as OCLC Online Computer Library Center, Incorporated, is an American nonprofit cooperative organization "dedicated to the public purposes ...

   <https://www.worldcat.org/oclc/1182797>.
The trial of Joan of Arc : being the verbatim report of the proceedings from the Orleans manuscript (Book, 1956) [WorldCat.org]<https://www.worldcat.org/oclc/1182797>
www.worldcat.org
Get this from a library! The trial of Joan of Arc : being the verbatim report of the proceedings from the Orleans manuscript. [Joan, of Arc Saint; Walter Sidney Scott]

   - *Le procès de condamnation et le procès de réhabilitation de Jeanne
   d'Arc. L'histoire en appel*. trans. Oursel, Raymond. Paris: Éditions
   Denoël. 1959. OCLC <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OCLC> 1823703
[https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/1b/OCLC_logo.svg/1200px-OCLC_logo.svg.png]<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OCLC>

OCLC - Wikipedia<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OCLC>
en.wikipedia.org
OCLC, currently incorporated as OCLC Online Computer Library Center, Incorporated, is an American nonprofit cooperative organization "dedicated to the public purposes ...

   <https://www.worldcat.org/oclc/1823703>.
Le procès de condamnation et le procès de réhabilitation de Jeanne d'Arc, (Book, 1959) [WorldCat.org]<https://www.worldcat.org/oclc/1823703>
www.worldcat.org
Get this from a library! Le procès de condamnation et le procès de réhabilitation de Jeanne d'Arc,. [Joan, of Arc Saint; Raymond Oursel]

from: Perisho, Steve
date: Sat, Dec 23, 2017 at 10:15 AM

Just seeing this.  It looks like Kevin, Daphne, and T. F. have already
nailed it, but if you want to see this in the major critical editions
in print rather than in a transcription of them online, see the final
paragraph of my post on a different Joan of Arc quotation here, where
I link to the critical edition of the 19th century (available onlilne
via the Hathi Trust), and give the editors of the one of 1952-1961,
citing that marvelous key to primary sources, the 3rd rev.2005 edition
of the Oxford Dictionary of the Christian Church:

https://liberlocorumcommunium.blogspot.com/2017/01/about-jesus-christ-and-church-i-simply.html

Steve Perisho
Theology and Philosophy Librarian
Seattle Pacific University

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