[Ads-l] hog molly

Thu Mar 1 23:30:19 UTC 2018

BTW, isn't the older meaning of 'hogmolly' a weakling?

On Mar 1, 2018 5:46 PM, "Peter Reitan" <pjreitan at hotmail.com> wrote:

> The word "Molly" in the name of the fish may come from "mullet," as "hog
> mullet" is listed as an alternate name for the "hog sucker."
>
>
> Presumably "hog" refers to being big and strong.  The word "Molly" in "hog
> molly," in the football sense, may have originally been related to
> mollycoddle, as suggested by the earliest example of a football "hog molly"
> I found:
>
>
> "Every college football coaching staff has a hatchet man . . .  A good
> hatchet man will run off all the 'hog mollies,' or chubby fellows who
> really don't want to play."
>
> Tampa Bay Times, December 18, 1966, page 3-C.
>
>
> Others using the word to mean large may associated that term with
> "humongous," as suggested by a comment by an ex-professional football
> player who trained and competed as a sumo wrestler in Japan:
>
>
> "'These guys are humongous - I call 'em big hog mollies,' he said.  'It's
> a nickname I gave them, and they started calling each other hog mollies.'"
>
> Arizona Daily Star (Tuscon), December 22, 1990, page 5-B.
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU> on behalf of
> Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at YALE.EDU>
> Sent: Thursday, March 1, 2018 10:39 AM
> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
> Subject: Re: hog molly
>
> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> -----------------------
> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Poster:       Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at YALE.EDU>
> Subject:      Re: hog molly
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> -------------------
>
> > On Mar 1, 2018, at 1:04 PM, George Thompson <george.thompson at NYU.EDU> =
> wrote:
> >=20
> > =E2=80=8BA column by Art Stapleton of the North Jersey Record on the =
> New York
> > Giants football team that was printed in today's (March 1) issue of =
> the
> > Poughkeepsie Journal and no doubt in some other newspapers in the =
> Gannett
> > chain, quotes Dave Gettleman, the new general manager of the Giants as
> > saying that having outstanding guards on the offensive line was very
> > important; when the New Orleans Saints won the Super Bowl "they had =
> two hog
> > molly guards. . . ." =E2=80=8B
> >=20
> >=20
> > DARE
> > =E2=80=8B has
> > "hog molly" as a
> > fish of the sucker family
> > =E2=80=8B, =E2=80=8B
> > from 1877, including=E2=80=8B
> > =E2=80=8B
> > :
> >=20
> > 1928  Outdoor Life 35/2 OK, I made a leisurely, light-hearted cast =
> with a
> > big =E2=80=9Chogmolly=E2=80=9D=E2=80=94I never knew where the Choctaws =
> got the name. He was a
> > sucker-mouthed individual with a pied or mottled skin. . . I figured =
> he was
> > just about what should run a big lineside bass crazy.
> > 1933  AmSp 8.1.49 Ozarks, Hogmolly. . . A fish of the sucker family. =
> The
> > term is in common use among the Choctaws in Oklahoma.
> > 1939  Hall Coll.  ceTN, The creek was full of fish=E2=80=94bass, white =
> suckers,
> > silversides, red-horses, hog mollies.
> > 1954  Milwaukee Jrl. (WI) 14 Mar sec 4 4/7 swMO, Jim Owen, float trip
> > outfitter on Ozark streams for 20 years, has sent many customers a
> > dictionary of hillbilly outdoors terms, as follows: . . Hogmolly, a =
> sucker.
> >=20
> > =E2=80=8BThe OED also has it in that sense from 1877.
> >=20
> > I don't know where Gettleman is from.
> >=20
> > He may be thinking of the term as "a sucker" (fish) and transferring =
> it to
> > "sucker" (generic person).
> > The OED has =E2=80=8B
> > Sucker 1b.  fig. A greenhorn, simpleton. orig. N. Amer.,
> > dating to the early 19th C.
> > but the OED doesn't have "sucker" in the sense of "thing", as in "Let =
> me
> > =E2=80=8Btake a =E2=80=8B
> > look at that sucker".
> >=20
> > Green's Dictionary of Slang has "sucker" as
> > sense 3 (c) [mid-19C+] a person (occas. animal) or object, =
> irrespective of
> > status.
> > =E2=80=8Bor
> > sense 3 (e) [1910s+] a general term of address, either derog. or =
> teasing.
> >=20
> > And reinforcing the connection might be the thought that a hog is a =
> large
> > and powerful animal.
> >=20
> > Green's Dictionary of Slang has "
> > =E2=80=8Bhog" as (sense
> >=20
> > 3
> > )
> > a (large and powerful) vehicle [fig. ref. to the size and power of a =
> SE
> > *hog*]
> > =E2=80=8B,=E2=80=8B
> > & (sense
> > 4
> > )
> > of those possessing =E2=80=98masculine=E2=80=99 characteristics [the =
> toughness of the
> > animal].=E2=80=8B
> >=20
> > =E2=80=8BWasn't there a briefly-celebrated football line that referred =
> to itself as
> > "the hogs"?  (Not "briefly" celebrated by the team's fans, of course; =
> only
> > by the rest of us.)
> >=20
> > GAT  =E2=80=8B
>
> Yes, that of the Redskins (if you=E2=80=99ll excuse the slur).  The =
> Arkansas Razorbacks sometimes self-designate as Hogs (or maybe it=E2=80=99=
> s Hawgs), motivated by the fact that that=E2=80=99s what razorbacks are =
> a kind of. =20
>
> I assume there=E2=80=99s no connection between the hog molly and =
> Hogmanay, although you=E2=80=99d probably want to steer clear of hog =
> mollies on New Year=E2=80=99s Eve just in case. =20
>
> LH
>  =20
>
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>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
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