[Ads-l] Quote: In etymology vowels count for nothing and consonants for very little. (Attributed to Voltaire)

Thu Feb 7 22:22:55 UTC 2019

Wonderful! Thank you all for the great citations. With your help I
located an interesting French citation from 1775 that lists some
principles for tracing word origins.

Year: 1775 (MDCCLXXV)
Title: Monde Primitif, Analysé Et Comparé Avec Le Monde Moderne,
Considéré Dans L'Histoire Naturelle De La Parole;
Ou Origine Du Langage Et De L'Écriture
Quote Page 47 and 48

https://hdl.handle.net/2027/nyp.33433001047368
https://hdl.handle.net/2027/nyp.33433001047368?urlappend=%3Bseq=87

[Begin excerpt]
SIXIÉME PRINCIPE.
Les voyelles ne sont rien dans la comparaison des mots.
[End excerpt]

[Begin excerpt]
SEPTIEME PRINCIPE.
Les Consonnes correspondantes ont été sans cesse substituées les unes
aux autres, sur-tout celles du même organe.
[End excerpt]

[Begin Google translate]
SIXTH PRINCIPLE.
Vowels are nothing in the comparison of words.
[End Google translate]

[Begin Google translate]
SEVENTH PRINCIPLE.
The corresponding consonants have been constantly substituted for each
other, especially those of the same organ.
[End Google translate]

Garson

On Thu, Feb 7, 2019 at 1:02 PM Ben Zimmer <bgzimmer at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> This 1800 quote conveys the idea that vowels were considered unimportant in
> the comparative philology of the day ("vowels are nothing in the comparison
> of languages").
>
> Louis de Bonald, _Essai Analytique sur les Lois Naturelles de l’Ordre
> Social_, 1800, p. 219
> Un grand nombre de mots qui désignent cause, origine, source, commencent en
> allemand par ur: ursach, ursprung, urquell, urbild , etc., et en latin par
> or: origo, ortus, oriri, c'est le même radical; car les voyelles ne sont
> rien dans la comparaison des langues. « Les langues, dit très-bien l'auteur
> du _Méchanisme des langues_, diffèrent entre elles par les consonnes, et
> les dialectes par les voyelles ». Les voyelles ne sont qu'un remplissage
> qui varie d'une contrée à l'autre, et l'on sait que la langue hébraïque
> s'écrit avec des points au lieu de voyelles, dont la valeur n'est pas fixée.
> https://books.google.com/books?id=__VeAAAAcAAJ&pg=PA219
>
> Rough translation:
> "A large number of words that designate cause, origin, source, begin in
> German with ur: ursach, ursprung, urquell, urbild, etc., and in Latin with
> or: origo, ortus, oriri, it is the same radical; because vowels are nothing
> in the comparison of languages. 'Languages,' says the author of _Mechanism
> of Languages_, 'differ from each other in consonants, and dialects in
> vowels.' The vowels are only a filling that varies from one country to
> another, and we know that the Hebrew language is written with points
> instead of vowels, whose value is not fixed."
>
> It's possible that _Méchanisme des langues_ refers to Wolfgang von
> Kempelen's 1791 work, _Mechanismus der menschlichen Sprache_, translated
> into French as _Le mécanisme de la parole_:
>
> https://books.google.com/books?id=fkAGOvJemboC
>
> ...though I can't find an equivalent quote there.
>
> --bgz
>
> On Thu, Feb 7, 2019 at 8:12 AM Stephen Goranson <goranson at duke.edu> wrote:
>
> > I know next to nothing about Voltaire, but
> >
> >
> > 1) The claim that "vowels are nothing in etymology" goes back at least to
> > 1807 (Satires of Juvenal, trans. and annotated by F. Hodgson, p. 514).*
> >
> >
> > 2) Besides the usual quote magnet story, one could, in some possible
> > world, claim a vague resemblance in his Philosophical Dictionary (near its
> > beginning):
> >
> > "From exclamations formed by vowels--as natural to children as croaking is
> > to frogs--the transition to a complete alphabet is not so great as it may
> > be thought. A mother must always have said to her child the equivalent of
> > come, go, take, leave, hush ! &c. These words represent nothing; they
> > describe nothing; but a gesture makes them intelligible."
> >
> >
> > Stephen Goranson
> >
> > with a little bit of etymology included here:
> >
> > Comments on Companion to DSS.pdf<
> > http://people.duke.edu/~goranson/Comments_on_Companion_to_DSS.pdf>
> >
> >
> >   *   *https://books.google.com/books?id=oKhfAAAAcAAJ&pg=PA514&dq=voltaire+nothing+etymology+vowels&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi-jumqyangAhUPhOAKHYaODcwQ6AEIKjAA#v=onepage&q=voltaire%20nothing%20etymology%20vowels&f=false
> > <https://books.google.com/books?id=oKhfAAAAcAAJ&pg=PA514&dq=voltaire+nothing+etymology+vowels&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi-jumqyangAhUPhOAKHYaODcwQ6AEIKjAA#v=onepage&q=voltaire%20nothing%20etymology%20vowels&f=false>*
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: American Dialect Society <...> on behalf of Ben Zimmer <...>
> > Sent: Thursday, February 7, 2019 6:25:26 AM
> > To: ...
> > Subject: Re: [ADS-L] Quote: In etymology vowels count for nothing and
> > consonants for very little. (Attributed to Voltaire)
> >
> > Here are two early versions in English. The second one, from 1836/37,
> > pushes back the earliest attribution to Voltaire.
> >
> > Edward Moor, _Oriental Fragments_, London, 1834, p. 240
> > In another place I have essayed to show that, in such speculations as
> > these, reasonable allowance must be made for non-efficiency, or impotency,
> > or nonimportance of vowels. Consonants are the vertebrae of language.
> > Without going the length of admitting, what has been pleasantly said on
> > this topic, that vowels are to stand for nothing and consonants for very
> > little...
> > https://books.google.com/books?id=fkTJBcGTPeEC&pg=PA240
> > Also appears in: The Asiatic Journal and Monthly Register for British
> > India and Its Dependencies, Vol. XIV, May-Aug. 1834, p. 177
> > https://books.google.com/books?id=vTo9AQAAMAAJ&pg=PA177
> >
> > The Foreign Quarterly Review, Vol. 18, No. 35, Oct. 1836-Jan. 1837, p. 142
> > [Book review of _Wamik und Asra_ by  Joseph von Hammer]
> > Vowels are the distinguishing mark of European speech, as consonants of
> > the Asiatic; yet, while the test of our application, as above, fully bears
> > out the jest of Voltaire, "that in etymology vowels are nothing, and
> > consonants next to nothing," are we to prefer the dicta of the philologist
> > to the facts of our experience?
> > https://books.google.com/books?id=Mp0YAQAAIAAJ&pg=PA142
> >
> > On Thu, Feb 7, 2019 at 1:32 AM ADSGarson O'Toole <...>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > A correspondent asked me to investigate the quotation specified in the
> > > subject line of this message. The correspondent sent an 1864 citation
> > > for a lecture delivered by Max Müller during which he credited
> > > Voltaire. The Wikiquote entry for Voltaire cites the same Max Müller
> > > lecture.
> > >
> > > Perhaps some list member is familiar with this quotation, and knows
> > > about its current status. Alternatively, perhaps someone can improve
> > > on the citations I am sharing below.
> > >
> > > The saying was circulating in French (in an English language journal)
> > > by 1833 without an attribution. The saying in French (in an English
> > > language journal) was ascribed to Voltaire by 1851. Voltaire died in
> > > 1778; thus, these are very late citations.
> > >
> > > This Voltaire attributed remark was discussed on this mailing list
> > > back in 2002 without resolution.
> > >
> > http://listserv.linguistlist.org/pipermail/histling/2002-August/001561.html
> > >
> > http://listserv.linguistlist.org/pipermail/histling/2002-August/001564.html
> > >
> > > Anatoly Liberman mentioned the saying in an article posted on the
> > > Oxford University Press blog in 2008.
> > >
> > > [ref] Website: OUPblog, Article: The Oddest English Spellings, Author:
> > > Anatoly Liberman, Date: April 30, 2008, Website description: Blog of
> > > Oxford University Press, a department of the University of Oxford.
> > > (Accessed blog.oup.com on February 7, 2019) link [/ref]
> > >
> > https://blog.oup.com/2008/04/the-oddest-english-spellings-or-thinking-of-o-with-my-compliments-to-the-conference-of-the-spelling-society-in-coventry-uk/
> > >
> > > [Begin excerpt]
> > > Dozens of works on word history open with Voltaire’s witticism that in
> > > etymology vowels count for nothing and consonants for very little. Yet
> > > it does not turn up in any of his written works.
> > > [End excerpt]
> > >
> > > Here is the 1833 citation, No attribution is listed.
> > >
> > > [ref] 1833 October, The Quarterly Review, Volume 50, Article VII,
> > > (Book Review of "Grimm's Deutche Grammatik", 3 volumes published by
> > > Gottingen), Start Page 169, Quote Page 169, John Murray, London.
> > > (Google Books Full View) link [/ref]
> > >
> > > https://books.google.com/books?id=nbJZAAAAcAAJ&q=consonne#v=snippet&
> > >
> > > [Begin excerpt]
> > > It is in works of this nature that Germany is pre-eminent among the
> > > European nations; and it is long since those who are interested in
> > > philological researches have made a more valuable acquisition, or one
> > > more fit to wipe out from their favourite study the reproach which has
> > > been somewhat speciously cast on it, that it is a science 'où la
> > > voyelle ne fait rien, et la consonne fort peu de chose.'
> > > [End excerpt]
> > >
> > >
> > > Here is an 1838 citation, No attribution is listed.
> > >
> > > [ref] 1838, A Manual of Comparative Philology by Reverend W. B.
> > > Winning (William Balfour Winning), Chapter 1: General Remarks,
> > > (Footnote 7), Quote Page 11 and 12, Printed for J. G. & F. Rivington,
> > > London. (Google Books Full View) link [/ref]
> > >
> > > https://books.google.com/books?id=ucoKAAAAMAAJ&q=consonne#v=snippet&
> > >
> > > [Begin excerpt]
> > > The smart satire against Philologists, that theirs is a science, où la
> > > voyelle ne fait rien, et la consonne fort peu de chose, was perhaps
> > > true in particular instances; but abstractedly considered, it is as
> > > weak as the folly against which it was directed.
> > > [End excerpt]
> > >
> > >
> > > Skipping ahead - the 1851 citation below is the first I have found
> > > attributing the remark to Voltaire.
> > >
> > > [ref] 1851 October, The Edinburgh Review, Volume 94, Article 1: (Book
> > > Review of A Comparative Grammar of the Sanskrit. Zend, Greek, Latin,
> > > Lithuanian, Gothic, German and Sclavonic Languages by Professor F.
> > > Bopp, Translated from the German), Start Page 297, Quote Page 298,
> > > Adam and Charles Black, Edinburgh. (Google Books Full View) link
> > > [/ref]
> > >
> > > https://books.google.com/books?id=Vmxs17WZelUC&q=consonne#v=snippet&
> > >
> > > [Begin excerpt]
> > > It is in works of this nature that Germany is pre-eminent among the
> > > European nations; and it is long since those who are interested in
> > > philological researches have made a more valuable acquisition, or one
> > > more fit to wipe out from their favourite study the reproach which has
> > > been somewhat speciously cast on it, that it is a science 'où la
> > > voyelle ne fait rien, et la consonne fort peu de chose.'
> > > [End excerpt]
> > >
> > >
> > > Here is an 1838 citation, No attribution is listed.
> > >
> > > [ref] 1838, A Manual of Comparative Philology by Reverend W. B.
> > > Winning (William Balfour Winning), Chapter 1: General Remarks,
> > > (Footnote 7), Quote Page 11 and 12, Printed for J. G. & F. Rivington,
> > > London. (Google Books Full View) link [/ref]
> > >
> > > https://books.google.com/books?id=ucoKAAAAMAAJ&q=consonne#v=snippet&
> > >
> > > [Begin excerpt]
> > > The smart satire against Philologists, that theirs is a science, où la
> > > voyelle ne fait rien, et la consonne fort peu de chose, was perhaps
> > > true in particular instances; but abstractedly considered, it is as
> > > weak as the folly against which it was directed.
> > > [End excerpt]
> > >
> > >
> > > Skipping ahead - the 1851 citation below is the first I have found
> > > attributing the remark to Voltaire.
> > >
> > > [ref] 1851 October, The Edinburgh Review, Volume 94, Article 1: (Book
> > > Review of A Comparative Grammar of the Sanskrit. Zend, Greek, Latin,
> > > Lithuanian, Gothic, German and Sclavonic Languages by Professor F.
> > > Bopp, Translated from the German), Start Page 297, Quote Page 298,
> > > Adam and Charles Black, Edinburgh. (Google Books Full View) link
> > > [/ref]
> > >
> > > https://books.google.com/books?id=Vmxs17WZelUC&q=consonne#v=snippet&
> > >
> > > [Begin excerpt]
> > > The old system of etymology, if system it can be called, in which, as
> > > Voltaire remarked, 'la voyelle ne fait rien, et la consonne 'fort peu
> > > de chose,' has certainly been stopped effectually by the introduction
> > > of comparative grammar.
> > > [End excerpt]
> >
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org

------------------------------------------------------------
The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org